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About LinkBacksmaybe Ne notices similarities between the branches? my infj always did identify with a tree.Originally Posted by Sage
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This is a discussion on Introverted Intuition vs. Extraverted Intuition within the INFJ Forum - The Protectors forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; Originally Posted by Sage I like the way someone described Ni that it is like a tree and we start ...
maybe Ne notices similarities between the branches? my infj always did identify with a tree.
Introverted Intuition-Ni
Extroverted Intuition-NeNi, or introverted iNtuition, is dominant for INxJ, secondary for ENxJ, tertiary for ISxP and inferior for ESxP. It is an inward sense of abstract perceptual shift. Rather than imagine different ways we could change the outside world, Ni acknowledges many different ways we could change the subjective meaning of things to ourselves by looking at them from different angles. Rather than directly confront an issue, Ni will often solve problems by simply looking at them from a different angle. Doing a bunch of community service sucks? Just think of it as an opportunity to get lots of exercise! Note that Ni doesn't think about how to change the outer world the way Ne does; it only thinks about how to change *the way we interpret* the outer world. Ni leads you to try and see "through the smoke and mirrors" to what is REALLY going on below the surface, that other people are not perceptive enough to pick up on...so in its unhealthy form, it turns into conspiracy theories, a la Dale Gribble from King of the Hill.
Strong Ni users like being the person behind the scenes who pulls all the strings (even better if most people don't even realize it) and understands the dynamics of everything on a deeper level than everyone else. They are threatened by the idea that there might be any perspective or angle they cannot see, and as such they sometimes overestimate their own ability to fully grasp and work around the attitudes of others.
As with all introverted functions, Ni doesn't pay attention to external conditions outside the self so it doesn't care if anyone else grasps the ideas the same way the Ni user does. To Ni, I get the significance and that's all that matters. Ni songwriters (e.g. Thom Yorke, INFJ) will often write lyrics that could not possibly make any sense to other people without a direct explanation from the writer, but they don't really care because Ni considers intuition such a personal thing that it can't make its perspective/ideas clear to others very easily at all, and frequently doesn't even bother trying.
For another example, Isaac Newton (INTJ) invented calculus and didn't bother telling anyone about it for 20 years. Ne would have been out showing the idea to others and changing it based on their reactions--but not Ni!
As a result Ne is typically much better at putting its abstract ideas into terms that others will understand than Ni.
On a side note: Ni appreciates definitional freedom (and thus is often annoyed by Ti) in the same way Ne appreciates freedom to change its plan of action abruptly (and thus is often annoyed by Te.) Ti users will tend to frame debates by first assigning precise definitions to terms, but Ni often objects to this by wondering: "How are we unconsciously limiting our understanding by assigning such rigid definitions in the first place?" Ni always seeks to escape the unconscious assumptions that limit its understanding of as many different conceptual viewpoints as possible.
From:Intro to Function Theory + More Detailed Descriptions of Each Function AttitudeNe, or extroverted iNtuition, is dominant for ENxP, secondary for INxP, tertiary for ESxJ and inferior for ISxJ. It is an outwardly exploratory attitude that encourages us to change, reinvent and experiment with the external world in order to find new and interesting combinations and patterns. Ne looks for novel outcomes and imagines how the things around you could be changed into other, more interesting things. Ne sees new information as part of a larger, emerging, as of yet unseen pattern that extends far beyond the self, and whose meaning will continue to change as the context grows and we discover more of the all-encompassing pattern. Rather than directly confront an issue, Ne will often broaden the context until the issue seems insignificant by comparison to the much bigger and more expansive ideas it imagines.
As with all extroverted functions, Ne needs to be validated by external/objective information to have meaning. So Ne users will often have many ideas very quickly but not know if they're good until they hear other people's reactions to them, or have a chance to experiment and see what happens. Ne wants very badly to be understood and appreciated by others. Note that Ne songwriters (e.g. Brandon Boyd, ENFP) will typically write enough context clues and such into their work that you can put the pieces together and infer what they were thinking when they wrote it. They want others to put the pieces together and get it
Basically, Ni will look at a situation and try to come up with different perspectives as to what is going on underneath the surface. For example, when I heard about the oil dump on the gulf of Mexico, I became really suspicious that that had happened. I immediately concluded that it was a set up from the government to pollute the ocean and as an excuse to rise the prices of oil. How I came up with that? I have no idea, but I was very sure that was the reason for that to happen.
Ne will look at that same situation and instead of looking at it from a different perspective, Ne will probably begin brainstorming as to how we should resolve the problem of cleaning the water.
I don't know if this is a very good example of Ni but today when I was out walking I noticed that some builders had carved the words "support your local builder" into the side of building that they were building or adjusting or whatever. I immediately started thinking about the statement as a rant against globalization and a statement about community and working class identity.
This just came to me immediately without thinking about it.
Thanks everyone for this. Finally, able to figure out I am INTJ and not INFP as I use Ni and not Ne.
Ni and Ne are perceiving, or information-gathering, functions. they are ways of viewing the world, means of experiencing reality and absorbing all that is to be seen around us.
to illustrate the time-focus of each of the perceiving functions....imagine they were all in a car on a trip. Si might be looking back, recalling other places they had visited in the past, and comparing them to what they are viewing out of the car window now. Se might be reveling in the experience of the beautiful scenery visible right now outside the window, absorbed in the sensations of the moment. Ni might be figuring out why the driver was reacting and responding the way he was to other drivers, or why the people in the car were responding to each other the way they were, and what each of these hidden meanings could lead to, and what could happen once they arrived at their destination. Ne might be imagining how they could resolve an anticipated complex travel schedule problem using the limited resources they would have available to them when they get there...in summary, Si is oriented towards the past, Se is grounded in the here-and-now (present), Ni and Ne look beyond the present and project forward to the future.
both Ni and Ne are wide-encompassing in that the aperture of their lens is opened wide to include not just actual/experiential reality but also probable/potential reality. that is, when they look at the world, they don't just see what is (or what appears to be), they see what could be (or what is beyond the immediately visible/obviously connected/unmistakeably foreseeable). because they are seeing more than just what is immediately "there," from the outside, they may appear to be random-ideas-generators...and sensors may wonder just where Ni's or Ne's ideas came from, or how they are connected to the experience at hand.
in reality, Ni and Ne can't see just one thing (that is, what is immediately visible before their eyes), when they view the world. intuition sees beyond the immediate experience, to all its possibilities....that is, how it can be interpreted, what it really means, how it is associated with the rest of reality (it connects it to other information to see how it fits into an overall understanding of the situation at hand or the big picture of life), what it could lead to, what the future could hold as a result of what is going on now. the possibilities seen by intuition may be hidden (the symbolism, or the world behind the curtain) or as yet unrealized (the potential, or the future consequence).
the primary difference between Ni and Ne is the location where the data is collected from, and the stage where the conclusions make their primary entrance.
Ni collects its data primarily from the inner being, the subconscious mind, although it incorporates data from the external world. Ne collects its data primarily from the external world.
both functions tie that data together, find how one piece of data correlates to other pieces of data and tie them together, and string the data together in an effort to close a wide-spanning 'loop' (connect a solution with a problem) or lace together a huge knotted web of understanding (formulate the big picture, or systematize truth in its most complex, least concise form). the strands of connected data are followed down to where they end (that is, their future implications). the thinking may appear disconnected or convoluted to others, because they have not seen the knots connecting each piece of data or traced each knotted path to its ultimate end (often the end is all that others hear). an intuitive may appear to make huge "leaps" between pieces of seemingly unrelated data, just because they are not spelling out all the knots in between each of these pieces of data, which they assume are as obvious to others as they are to them.
Ni's conclusions make their primary entrance in the Ni user's brain...they may or may not later be shared with others. Ne's conclusions typically are spoken to others, and the Ne-dom may even become known as very inventive/creative, an extraordinarily-gifted problem-solver, or a 'thousands of ideas' person, for this reason.
the "aha! moments" of Ni are its conclusions...the subconscious mind weaves together all the little patches of data it has taken in and knotted together together into a single net, and presents the conscious mind with the completed whole. the "oh, we could do this!" or "why not try this to solve this?!" statements of Ne are its conclusions, the synthesis that connects a solution with a problem, etc. in an amazingly inventive way...
Last edited by emerald sea; 05-06-2012 at 08:23 AM.
I have been thrown off track with this also. Is it that the Ni *wants* to come to closure, but always can't? It seems to be that Ni users are sure of themselves, when... I'm not sure they can always come up with definite options. Is it that an Ni user will IMMEDIATELY see all possibilities, but their GOAL is to find some kind of set point in their head and go with it.
And Ne doesn't see all the possibilities, but it's goal is creating more?
Ne seems to be related to indecision. But could Ni just as easily relate to indecision from it's *fuzzy* logic?
For me I am always getting new ideas in my head, they are kind of distracting, and sometimes they take me far off course, that the original plan or why I started thinking on the subject. Like with just going to school, I start looking at classes for next semester, then... I'll look at the combinations I can take from there, then, I'll look at programs after that, where I might live after that, if I move to X ...then what would I do... then after that... then from there, I boil down and start eliminating some of these... yet never come to a definite solution...The thing is I would very much like to have some definite ideas, yet due to too much thinking about it... I can't come to many firm decisions on these. If somebody wants a definite answer, I would rather give them a "general guideline". Ne users seem like they might LIKE having all these options, the thing is I have them, but I don't really want them.
I am able to rationalize that one route, is just as good as the next, which creates the indecisiveness, not wanting to have anything set in stone, for fear that one option might not work out, and I must also be aware and ready to take the other route at any given time.
How can I pick one thing, when I have 4 options that all seem the same? I might pick one option in my head for a few days, but then a few days later... those other options are like "heyyy what about me" ...then I need to process them again and come to a realization of why I rejected them before...but it is not a true *rejection* they are still viable options. They might even be graded as better to worse... like having 50 options I could think about... then narrowing it down... but it never gets to 1 definite option, it gets to 4 options of plausibility... they might be 80% 80% 75% 70% ... never a 100%. I would LOVE to have a 100% in actuality, just to say, this is it! Is this an "AHA" moment that Ni Dom's come to? B/C I truly never have that. It's more of a yep, I thought about it, narrowed it down... yet, still these options remain. I think it is possible a Ti user would narrow this down to a singular precise amount. I could see a Ti user thinking there are atoms... but an Ni user perhaps saying...uhh, I think there might be an atom...but there very well might be other things there, lets ponder on this some more. Or reading a book, yeah there is what is said... and the *supposed* hidden meaning...but eh... it could be the authors intent was actually multiple meanings, we must hold all 3 multiple meanings as plausible still. So many things to me are NEVER, EVER as they *seem*.
I was thinking that this could also be Ni with an Inferior Se going on... like, dammit, I already went through this in my head one time, why I am evaluating this again? More likely it seems like Ne, with an inferior Si... meaning, I am not remembering what I already did, and how I got there. So those options I already eliminated for some good reason, keep coming back to pester me. They seem like options again, and I have to do deep reflection into what actually happen to eliminate them.But even then, there is always a "what if".
sometimes I feel like I have lived out these entire "mini lives" inside my own head.
What throws me off about Ne descriptions, as to me some of the descriptions seem like Se/Te things... like, Ne users need to change things... or possibly do something... I am not so certain these are accurate, I see it more of seeing what could happen and concerned with ideas... needing to do something about it, I'm not so sure of. I think that is more of Se or Te.
Also, the Ne description doesn't necessarily work for me as described... I feel more like I still know all the options at hand, at any given time... yet I am still reluctant to make a FIRM decision on it. I.E. I think I do come to an *exhaustion* of all options at some point. But then, going back and picking from those and narrowing it down, is still a troubling task. I can eliminate a few, but I still see maybe 3-4 different paths, down from 100 to begin with. Does Ni work this way? Is it more of a fuzzier narrowing down than Ti might be for instance?
Knowing what you want seems unreasonable to me, how can you know what you want, if you can not predict your future circumstances? What if what I do now is completely irrelevant in the future, due to some technology change for instance? Why would I want to work on one solitary thing, when all these other options are just as plausible?
Probably the reason while after years of looking at MBTI, I still can't decide on a top... maybe I am actually an Ne dom and those options are just never ending. Or maybe I see all the possible options I have built through Ni... yet I am still troubled at making a FIRM solid decision on one thing...something that maybe Ti would do, be able to NAME something. They seem so so certain. I always have doubt. I desperately need meaning, but that meaning is still vague, possibilities HAVE been eliminated, but one CERTAIN option is just not there, I doubt it ever will be, b/c maybe I am at that angle point, where I see these final angles, and all are still plausible.
Many INFJ seem pretty solid at what they want to do. While P users seem they don't know what they want to do...
At the same time... I do WANT to know what I want to do... but still finding that avenue is troubling. I think a P users might just not care, and actually be fine with all kinds of things happening to them. I am NOT fine with all kinds of things happening to me... But at the same time, I see options, but I am reluctant to *know*... to *know* seems like a certain thing to me, and my stance is we might not truly ever be able to *know*. It troubles me, so I take a more broad path to knowing... keeping options open, but knowing that path is a bit fuzzy. I want to know everything, but I also have found from trying to find everything, that there is NEVER one definite answer... at least to me there isn't.
Sometimes Ne seems more accurate, b/c I am constantly building new information that is changing...Then Ni seems more accurate, but Ni seems to at some point come to clear understandings.. sure of their understandings. The J types... To me, there are *always* multiple paths, and never one *best*... so that seems to throw me off. Then I start thinking maybe I am an INFP, but then it's like... That F is there, but is it? What is the real driver... is it a quest for knowledge? Or is it that driving flame inside... Is that driving flame inside better used to help other people (Fe) ... quite possible, I do this more... but then Fe AGAIN throws me off as it says it is towards a moral societal values, and I am very ANTI what society says. I do think there are some norms that *should* be used that we can all agree on them, but I am completely ANTI religion, ANTI governmental policies, ANTI say... Regional Customs. They sicken me, and this doesn't sound like what an Fe user would do, which is to accept these outside F things. Politicians scare me, religious leaders scare me, anybody professing to KNOW the best way. I even reject a bunch of my families own customs and traditions, traditional things that MEN should do, etc. Yet at the same time, I do think there is this overarching human code that exists, what it means to be human, how we SHOULD treat people, yet this isn't really seen in society. Is this still Fe???? Possibly some warped version of Fe in the Aux position with Ni there?
Does any of this sound like an Ni Dom??? Or does it sound like an Ne Dom?... or something altogether different.
Last edited by jd_; 05-18-2012 at 10:37 AM.
@jd_ ~
because Ni is a perceiving function, it is, like Si, always gathering information. so it doesn't immediately know all the possibilities. it only knows what it has perceived thus far in its life. just like Si, it has to be educated (that is, fed its data). it takes in data throughout your life and sometimes that data introduces new possibilities that had not been considered before.
Ni operates differently from Si because it is not conscious of doing so - it is sort of passively receiving rather than actively taking in information, because Ni operates subconsciously. when Si experiences anything, it is most in tune with its physical senses (the source of its data). the sensory impressions that comprise that experience (what they saw/heard/felt/smelled/tasted, details of what happened, when it happened, what was said, etc.) hit the brain and *stick* there. when Ni experiences anything, it is most in tune with its subconscious mind (the source of its data). the impressions that interpret the experience (its meaning, its implications, whatever may be hidden or might occur in the future as a result) hit the brain and *stick* there.
Ni's sureness of itself is probably due to trusting the source of its data - the subconscious mind. it is not really any more sure of itself than Si is.
each perceiving type has a built-in overarching trust in the data that comes from its preferred data source - sensors prefer to trust that which can be experienced with the senses or known unequivocally to be fact; intuitives prefer to trust the data that comes from their subconscious mind, or gut feelings, hunches, and all such impressions. i have read several reports of scientific research into intuition that have reported that the processing performed by the subconscious mind, the product of which is whatever we *know* intuitively, is often (but not always) highly accurate. both sensing data sources and intuitive data sources are truthful sources of data, but both can be misperceived (just like someone can accidentally read something wrong), both can be deceptively twisted by mental prejudices or projection, and both can be overly trusted at the expense of the other.
closure is not a function of Ni; actually it is a function of the last letter in your type - that is, whether you are a judging or perceiving type. judging types want closure; perceiving types prefer that things remain open-ended.
Ni and Ne both complete puzzles with the puzzle pieces (random bits of data perceived) that they are handed throughout life. they find what connects to what else, notice the patterns, and tie it all together. the difference is that Ni manipulates the puzzle pieces inside its head, and Ne manipulates the puzzle pieces in the world around them. Ti also does systems-building, which makes for a dynamic combination when it works in conjunction with Ni or Ne.
Last edited by emerald sea; 05-18-2012 at 10:36 AM. Reason: accidentally typed "does" and meant "doesn't"
This makes somewhat sense... And also what might throw me off, if I was an Ni user. The problem is, I think I am...but then, that doubt, that more information comes in. It might be solid for weeks, months at a time...then it morphs. To others, this seems as if I am changing my mind, but really, my mind was just... open?
Is it possible than an Ni user WANTS to have closure, but due to being an NiDom, that closure never actually comes? It is constantly seeking new information at some type of attempt at understanding. Or it comes relatively unoften at least?
Here is my dilemma... at the bottom of my psyche, I really DO want closure, I DO want some plausible options, I'd love to have a definite answer, to KNOW what I want to do, to BE CERTAIN. Yet, I still have multiple options, even when digging very deep into my psyche.
Is the difference of a P user that they actually DO want more options? And the reverse situation for them... could be they feel STUCK with a definite answer, but want some more options anyway? B/C I am not like that at all. I think I see all the options, but I don't actually want them, and some things...there is just no definite answer, but a BROAD path to take. A *general* direction. But then something like "Hey I could see myself living here for 10 years" or "In this PhD program for 7 years" seem quite terrifying. Commitment to any long term thing to me seems me terrifying, which throws me back into being a type of P type.
I feel comfortable taking a broad path, of my choosing. Picking one thing, or not having an actual choice in the matter are *both* scary thoughts. Planning out something in the middle seems more reasonable to me.
Again it's like... hmm... stuck with just this one thing for ever??? No way... but, I like options A, B, and C... all are plausible... Then option G? NO WAY. option Z... NO WAY.
To show you how this works. I will use two scenarios for me which I have come to a broad decision on. And to me, it IS a decision...even though it's not *exact*. I still narrowed it down from a broader amount of previous options.
I narrowed down many plausible career options... I know I want to write for a living... but, to focus just on say, being a novelist, seems terrifying. I want to write, but over a broad spectrum... I want to do short stories, screenplays, philosophical works, journalism... etc. To pick just one seems troubling. Ask me if I want to draw or play music though? Eh... no, not my thing. I think a P type might be more open to these?
Or where I want to live... ideally I'd like to be living in San Francisco or Los Angeles, neither are really *better* than the other in my mind. But then, ask me to live in say, Chicago for instance, I'd say absolutely no way due to my preferences. A P type might say (in theory) ... oh I'll give Chicago a chance. Myself I would say, absolutely no way, I'd hate it. But SF or LA...yeah I could do either, BUT saying I *have* to be in LA...doesn't work either. I don't feel *that* strongly about decisions as I have seen other types do. Maybe this is bringing in some form of Ti/Fi I'm unaware of or don't use... who knows.
It seems a P type to me would still be open to options G and Z, and truly not have much of a preference (The very open minded). I have my preferences, but they are broad and not exact.
So... possibly it is Ni coupled with Te which is more decisive? And an INFJ Ni with Ti...could be more broad?
no reason this can't be Ni. Ni can change its mind. i have no doubt i'm an Ni-dom and i've changed my mind before. the introduction of new data (that suggests new possibilities or interpretations) can lead to revision of a theory that Ni had previously settled on in its mind. i think there is too much "ado" made of Ni's certainty, as if it were different from the certainty that anyone has in the data their preferred perceiving function provides them.
Ni is not really any different from any other perceiving function in terms of the degree of trust it places in its data sources, it just proclaims its certainty more because of other people's skepticism, or says it *just knows and is certain* because it can't really explain how it came to know something that its subconscious mind formulated (how can you explain a process of perceiving you weren't aware of while it was going on?). people tend to question Ni since sometimes it *knows* things for which it cannot show proof in the external world that others can see. but in reality often there IS proof in the external world, but the Ni user may not immediately be able to spell that out, because the intake and processing of that data all occurred subconsciously. when Ni is in use, the subconscious mind takes in signals from the external environment, as well as using its own stored data, and processes it more quickly than the mind can consciously perform rational thought, making the connections between all the data, and then delivers it to the conscious mind as an impression, which feels as real and consuming and impossible-not-to-notice to the Ni user as a sensory impression from the external world (such as a view, a sound, etc.) is to an Si user.
i very seldom get the closure i desire, because of Ni...as long as there are possibilities that are not satisfactorily ruled out in my mind, i can't settle on just one version of reality, since often there is no way to access the information that could rule out certain possibilities...and that drives me crazy. Ni is a possibilities generator. so, yes, this could be all Ni's fault. :PIs it possible than an Ni user WANTS to have closure, but due to being an NiDom, that closure never actually comes? It is constantly seeking new information at some type of attempt at understanding. Or it comes relatively unoften at least?
you have your answer there - you always have "multiple options" floating around your head and want to settle on one of them. sounds just like me...and conspicuously resembles an N type.Here is my dilemma... at the bottom of my psyche, I really DO want closure, I DO want some plausible options, I'd love to have a definite answer, to KNOW what I want to do, to BE CERTAIN. Yet, I still have multiple options, even when digging very deep into my psyche.
the ideas floating around about Js and Ps are generalizations and not always accurate for each J or P type, therefore i wouldn't recommend that your base your typing of yourself upon them. for instance, one of these generalizations is that Js like to keep their environment orderly, but INFJs are known (and reported in standard MBTI literature) to often be unlike the typical J in this respect, such that their personal areas may not be orderly, may even habitually be messy. so those rules are not set in stone, nor do they apply to every type, so it is shaky (at best) to decide your MBTI type based on them. the only real rules, that apply to every MBTI type, about what J and P mean are this:Is the difference of a P user that they actually DO want more options? And the reverse situation for them... could be they feel STUCK with a definite answer, but want some more options anyway?
J (judging) types extravert their judging function (Te or Fe)
P (perceiving) types extravert their perceiving function (Ne or Se)
if you prefer to interact with the outer world using your perceiving function, you are a P. if you prefer to interact with the outer world using your judging function, you are a J. i am a J because i interact with the world and people around me by using Fe. one way to determine this is to ask the people who know you well and are around you most often in real life to ask you which they see in you the most (the function that is extraverted will be the function that will be most noticeable to others who spend time with you).
if you extravert Te, they will most likely see you as someone who likes to be in charge and would like to impose their logic on their environment, who makes decisions for yourself and for others based on what makes the most logical sense to you, even if it badly affects harmony in relationships. if you extravert Fe, they will see you as someone who is engaging with others, cares about how others are treated, is concerned to get along and maintain harmony in their relationships, and makes decisions based on how they affect others or how they affect relationships. if you extravert Ne, they will see you as an ideas person who always can figure out a solution to a difficult problem and seems to thrive on troubleshooting/problem solving or coming up with inventive new ways to do things or the like. if you extravert Se, they will see you as someone very in touch with facts and telling it like they see it, someone who isn't inclined towards the airy-fairy but towards cold hard facts, someone very aware of and engaged with your physical environment rather than drifting off in your thought world all the time. you could read them these descriptions and ask them which one sounds most like you, to them.
as far as your question is concerned, it depends how you define "options," what that indicates about you.
if you mean "possibilities," that is an intuitive perceiving function (Ni or Ne). if you are analyzing someone's behavior, Ni's job is to produce lots of different ways of interpreting the causative factors motivating the person to act that way, and wave them before your mind's "eye" so as to force you to face them. if you are analyzing why your computer suddenly displayed a blue screen of death, Ne's job is to generate all the possible software or hardware or power source related potential causes for that, so you can consider each one.
if you mean "the desire not to be restricted, boxed in, or tied down to just certain ways or things," depending on its application, that can be Ne or P. if it's in terms of the way things are done, such as a work procedure (you don't want to follow the same old historically-accepted, time-proven methods, but want to invent your own better or more efficient ways of doing the work), or way of treating a medical ailment, or equipment that is used for a certain purpose, or the like, that's Ne. if it's very difficult for you to narrow down from the broad array of major life options to select just one, if it makes you feel trapped to have to choose just one path for the rest of your life, and you'd rather keep your options open to do something else or go somewhere else or when you get bored - because you are more unsettled by boredom or feeling trapped than by change, that could be Ne, but enneagram type 7 can mimic Ne in certain respects.
why do you have to pick just one type of writing? who says you can't do all of it? your desire not to limit yourself to just one sounds like someone who enjoys multiple types of writing and would like to do all of them. :) anyone can have multiple hobbies or things they like to do as a career, and want to do all of them, and not like the fact that they can't do all of them. i would like to be a translator, a doctor, a housemom that adopts kids off the street or takes care of orphans or kids no one else wants to love, a PTSD counselor for soldiers, a nutritionist, a musician, a teacher, and more, but i realize that i don't really have the option to be all of them in one lifetime.B/C I am not like that at all. I think I see all the options, but I don't actually want them, and some things...there is just no definite answer, but a BROAD path to take. A *general* direction. But then something like "Hey I could see myself living here for 10 years" or "In this PhD program for 7 years" seem quite terrifying. Commitment to any long term thing to me seems me terrifying, which throws me back into being a type of P type. I feel comfortable taking a broad path, of my choosing. Picking one thing, or not having an actual choice in the matter are *both* scary thoughts. Planning out something in the middle seems more reasonable to me.
Again it's like... hmm... stuck with just this one thing for ever??? No way... but, I like options A, B, and C... all are plausible... Then option G? NO WAY. option Z... NO WAY.
To show you how this works. I will use two scenarios for me which I have come to a decision on.
I narrowed down many plausible career options... I know I want to write for a living... but, to focus just on say, being a novelist, seems terrifying. I want to write, but over a broad spectrum... I want to do short stories, screenplays, philosophical works, journalism... etc. To pick just one seems troubling. Ask me if I want to draw or play music though? Eh... no, not my thing. I think a P type might be more open to these?
Or where I want to live... ideally I'd like to be living in San Francisco or Los Angeles, neither are really *better* than the other in my mind. But then, ask me to live in say, Chicago for instance, I'd say absolutely no way due to my preferences.
It seems a P type to me would still be open to options G and Z, and truly not have much of a preference (The very open minded). I have my preferences, but they are broad and not exact.
and your desire to rule out Chicago as a place to live but to be equally ok with either of two other cities, is indicative that you are a person with preferences. every person of every type has personal preferences. that's not really type-related. :)
P types are no more or less likely than Js to enjoy music and art.
decisive in what respect?So... possibly it is Ni coupled with Te which is more decisive? And an INFJ Ni with Ti...could be more broad?
Te is decisive when it comes to what others do or how the external environment is ordered, or how the organization is laid out, or the way things are done. think of Te is the managerial function - it acts like a boss who is responsible for the people and environment around it, to ensure that those people and that environment are in compliance with its logic and the standards/rules it accepts. it takes its personal logic - or the official rules and standards that exist or that it created - and applies it to its external environment - for instance....'you should not do this because it doesn't make sense to me, so i don't understand why you let something else (that is, other than what makes sense to me) determine your decisions.' 'do this!' 'you didn't do that right, because it doesn't match the standard!' 'you must follow the rules!' 'no, this is the proper way to go about accomplishing that, you should follow these steps...[spells out steps]!' 'always have a backup plan!' 'it's important to be fair.'
Ti is Te flipped inward, typically applied to ideas they are mulling over in their head, systems they are formulating in their head, and the person's own actions and thought patterns. Ti is like the referee for thought patterns - 'no, that doesn't make logical sense, so it can't be that, it must be this.' 'think through it logically - logical consistency is everything, if the principles don't make sense, change them so they do!' 'systematize your thought into a data map and formulate a logical philosophy that helps you understand the world.' 'no, that's not the right word to use, it doesn't match the dictionary definition (i.e., the standard)!' 'that is true because this is true - the premises for my logic are my beliefs.' 'do it this way [said to self] - use this procedure.' 'there are logical rules that govern the way everything works, figure them out.' ' be fair to people.'
i hope this helps! :)
Good insights, I will comment more later.
On the type 7 enneagram... I am type 5w4 ... pretty sure. I just looked, it said 5 moves to 7 in times of stress.. So the boxed in things...yeah, that starts happening when I get stressed... Like, AHH I gotta get outta this city, I gotta get out of this job, type though hts. When I have thoughts like that, I am definitely in a stressed out thought pattern. Or... when I have too much coffee.
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