[Runescribe]

sometimes I can even expect them to confess that I am wiser, as they realize all of their problems are self-centered.

I always felt like I was born about 40 years old and that mentally I wouldn't make sense until my chronological age matched the age of my inner temperament. Essentially as if those two just recently converged and I'm beginning a new phase of understanding.

I believe love does exist without understanding, but understanding will never occur without love.

It's funny, I think we are all talking about the same kind of kind. Very similar conceptions at any rate. And we aren't talking about jump in the sack love, but Love proper. For others - for ourselves.

The longer I'm in the INFJ forums the more I realize that I am identifying with the right type. It just feels like a tribe where you are understood. Wonderful.

[Runescribe]

Type Insights - Part 3

That's a great link. Thanks.

[Runescribe]

Some scientists believe that we find physical aspects attractive that are commonly associated with the genetic traits we subconsciously desire.

I've read about how recent tests reveal that women show an unconscious ability to detect through olfaction the genetic compatibility of a man's (MHC) Major Histocompatibility Complex. These genes carry the instructions for important building blocks of the immune system. If they aren't on birth control they will be drawn to a man who has MHC alleles similar to those of her father but different from those of her mother.

This is possible because when our defenses bind with pathogens it is expressed in body odor. Subconsciously women react to this smell. However, birth control reverses the choice. Because the Pill makes a woman's body react as if it is already pregnant - it is theorized that she will bond with men who appear to be "kin" for support purposes.

Contraception taken prior to a relationship rather than after its formation could actually wind up hampering the immunity of children born to the couple.

Bonding is obviously more complex than just one factor like smell. But it does demonstrate that some of it is unconscious and that there are different strategies for different kinds of partners at different times. Perhaps that applies to behavior to. Maybe they are more attracted to aggressive men for mating but to supportive men for raising children?

This could be it's own thread. I've been thinking of starting one if there isn't one already.

Balderdash - start that thread on the contributions and roles of the INFJ Man

Protector
Counselor
NF Tribe - Idealist
(Althought Idealism is more of a cognitive characteristic than a role)

Other "Roles" ?

And maybe how it ties in with;

The Many Faces of INFJ
The Many Faces of INFJ

Surely our roles would go through the "Face" filter at different points in our lives.

And something of interest to me lately - the Life Story of an INFJ. Compare to Shakespeare's Seven Ages of Man. What is an INFJ like at each stage of life? Do the roles match up to stages or express themselves differently at these stages?

The Seven Ages of Man
(Can the "Faces" of INFJ be expressed at these times?)

* Infancy, 0-4 years: In this stage he is a baby.

* Childhood, 5-12 years: It is in this stage that he begins to go to school. He is reluctant to leave the protected environment of his home as he is still not confident enough to exercise his own discretion.

* The Lover, 13-20 years: In this stage he is always remorseful due to some reason or other, especially the loss of love. He tries to express feelings through song or some other cultural activity.

* The Soldier, 21-40 years: It is in this age that he thinks less of himself and begins to think more of others. He is very easily aroused and is hot headed. He is always working towards making a reputation for himself and gaining recognition, however short-lived it may be, even at the cost of his own life.

(Personally I'm at the cusp of the "Justice" age.)

* The Justice, 40-65 years: In this stage he has acquired wisdom through the many experiences he has had in life. He has reached a stage where he has gained prosperity and social status. He becomes very attentive of his looks and begins to enjoy the finer things of life.

* Old Age, 65-80 years: He begins to lose his charm — both physical and mental. He begins to become the brunt of others' jokes. He loses his firmness and assertiveness, and shrinks in stature and personality.

* Mental dementia and death 80+ years: He loses his status and he becomes a non-entity. He becomes dependent on others like a child and is in need of constant support before finally dying.

-- These are just ideas to get it started. You doubtlessly have your own notions. Start that thread :-)

[Runescribe]

Good looking people are healthier. They get instinctively attracted to them and cannot logically explain to you why. They cannot explain it to you because few women (or men) have read books on evolutionary psychology and biology. If one reads these book, then nature's strategy becomes very clear and human behavior that had you confounded before suddenly starts to make a whole lot of sense.

Hilarious. I didn't read this post before I put up mine about MHC compatibility and olfaction. Also there were my notes on selection of different temperament at different times.

Since I seem addicted to flirting, especially recently. I'm wondering if a dynamic may be in play here. So I'm thinking of a theory.

As a younger man (say from my early 20s to mid 30s) I was able to turn on The Cobra (to borrow a term from the INTP thread on the Many Faces of INFJ) as a way of showing more confidence towards women - and more guile. I believe that we INFJ men can use our combination of Ni in anticipation, Fe in interaction and Se for undifferentiated environmental input on gauging a woman's response. We are good at picking up on body language. So the "opener" at least for me can be quite natural.

Yet since I am no longer interested in "closing the deal" (I hate that term because it makes you sound like a player but flirting contains an element like this) - I am already a father after all - once I have opened the flirtation dialogue there are only two places to go.

A. Come to a natural stopping point in the flirtation, break it off and go separate ways. She feels good, feels flattered. You feel good. Nice thing. (I remember one day at the skating rink last year flirting with a lady who was probably about 45, just a couple years older than me. Afterward she was blushing and talking with her girlfriends and I could see them gesturing to each other and giggling. Laughing like they were in high school. And I thought you know she probably doesn't get that every day. I think it made her feel really good because she had a very positive reaction. I think it made her feel good about herself.)

B. Find commonality that leads to friendship.

If "B" is involved I have found that it is very easy to get hurt. Upon reflection I think I know a few reasons it may happen.

* If you have arrived at B by means of flirting at the introductory phase, you have obviously had reciprocation. This means the lady was not only receptive to you as a friend but that early on her response may have been informed unconsciously by a reaction to you as a potential sexual partner. You may have "flipped the switch" so to speak.

* However; you have terminated that phase of interaction and moved on to the INFJ natural style which is heavily centered in Ni/Fe/Ti. This is more abstract and more squishy. This is when we start being our natural mawkish and philosophical selves. And I think this is where things go really go off the rails.

-- Type interaction likely kicks into high gear at this point. If the switch has been flipped but consummation does not occur then it may be likely that she no longer biologically wants to "waste time" on you, and shadow functions can step in.

-- Having established on your own part this receptiveness naturally implies a vulnerability to her judgment of your fitness. Since ending the flirting right after the switch is flipped interrupts this process, her drawing away will have behavioral consequences to can be harmful to this vulnerability.

-- We are sensitive souls to begin with. Once they get to know us a little better they may just interject the same kinds of misunderstanding that happens for us on a daily basis anyhow.

It is rare, extremely rare that a lady I flirt with actually becomes a friend. It is more common that situation "A" occurs and both parties go their separate ways feeling good. It sometimes happens that "B" occurs with the attendant misery.

To summarize, I think flirting for an INFJ can be hazardous if taken too far because we are sensitive. And because of our tendency to Idealize situations and people we can project qualities onto a person in limerence which they really don't have in reality. Flirting is very risky in terms of the emotional and mental energy spent on something which ostensibly is just going to give you a short term pay off in terms of validation.

Why is this important to me? Because I flirt a lot. And I think it is driven by a couple of "needs" one is the validation that some INFJ men can crave as a result of our natural mawkishness, and secondly I am struggling with those issues of entering middle age. I see that vitality changing, and something deep inside me wants to fight it. A very dangerous game. And somehow I feel like if I can understand it I can best this behavior and end it to do more positive things.

E gad this was long.

[Runescribe]

To summarize, I think flirting for an INFJ can be hazardous if taken too far because we are sensitive. And because of our tendency to Idealize situations and people we can project qualities onto a person in limerence which they really don't have in reality. Flirting is very risky in terms of the emotional and mental energy

I would be completely remiss if I didn't point out that it is risky for both parties. If you have opened up this kind of dialogue and it wasn't taken seriously then yes you go your separate ways and you're happy. Well and good. But if scenario "B" kicks in, you could be sticking thorns in the vulnerabilities of this other person as well. You could be hurting this person that only so recently you were praising in a seductive way.

It doesn't fit very well in INFJ values to hurt another person, and flirting certainly opens up the possibility to hurt a lady. Not good. Not good at all.

[balderdash]

The Many Faces of INFJ
The Many Faces of INFJ

Wow. Thanks for linking this. I am going to have to dive into this sometime. Berry eenterestink.

I have thought of that idea, but never pursued it very far. I noticed, during the first few threads I read on this board, that I felt like I related much more to some people than others.

Edit: I started that "contributions" thread with the original idea I had for it. Hope it isn't too out there, or boring, for most people.
I think that the "contributions and roles of the INFJ Man/Woman" would be a good one too. Perhaps you should start it since you already have an idea of how to kick it off. I will definitely throw in my 2 cents if you do. :)