[talon235]

so its 7am here and I haven't slept since 2am the night before but but but!~ I have the perfect topic to relate to the amount of tired I am right now times the amount I cannot sleep. (1000 x 15)



Sorry this is going to be a long one because I have the time but not the will to sleep. Some of you may call me crazy for this btw I don't know.

Now me personally I grew up in a Buddhist household and was never force fed the religion. I think that's because its their way. My parents wouldn't care less if I decided to choose another religious view, maybe that was good maybe it was bad. I've always put up a front and said that I am an atheist but the truth is I teeter on a battle with the sins I commit and what ever I might have to face after I die. If I wanted to be the most honest with myself and everyone I would say that I hate God yet I wish I could be closer to him (if he is there). I'm a hateful agnostic, and I have my reasons.

I have two friends (INFJ and ENFP) who both are very religious and spiritual. They both have such strong intuition and say that they feel very connected with God or Jesus and they talk about their dreams and contacts with ghost and spirits and all that stuff.


The ENFP (Baptist)

Now I'm much closer to the ENFP so I guess I'll talk about her first. I remember meeting her first when I was 7 but it wasn't till we were 12 that she came to me and said "I want to pray with you". I guess you can really call it a cliche "I wanna talk to you about Jesus" moment. I don't know why I just let it happen. Maybe it was because I was tired of hiding my baby sister at her house while all hell broke loose at mine, maybe I was tired of cleaning up all the broken plates after my parents fought and feeling hopeless.

That's where it all started, me searching for hope and God.

anyways she always tells me that she talks to Jesus, and that she believes that God has a plan for her and she is following it and that she feels so blessed for all the good that has come her way. She says things like God always tests her or she would tell me that she knows that god has planned for her to be in my life. She believes that the devil and his demons are out there and they are the ones that cause us pain and reach out to us to try and hurt us. She believes that with a cross and a prayer you can keep them away. This is an excerpt from one of our chats just to give you a feeling of how things are between us when it comes to this.

(5:08:59 AM) rKless: talk to Jesus
(5:09:07 AM) Me: haha
(5:11:22 AM) Me: you are my jesus
(5:11:36 AM) Me: in all honesty
(5:11:50 AM) Me: the only connection that I am willing to have with it
(5:12:09 AM) Me: theres nothing that sticks out when I think about cathy more than GOD
(5:12:43 AM) rKless: i wish you would take the peace and love that he offeres
(5:12:46 AM) rKless: offers*
(5:14:41 AM) Me: yeah I know you do
(5:19:28 AM) rKless: you know...


The Dreams/Nightmares

I live a pretty sinful life, and its no secret. I don't think I really care about where I go when I die because of this love/mostly hate relationship I have with God. If I go to hell then so be it, I'm a pretty risky person anyways and if the Christians are right my whole family will be there with me and I love my family.

Its just that I do have this deep down feeling in me that there is a God. It manifest itself when things are darkest in my life in the form of nightmares. Nightmares are the best thing I can describe them as. I don't have vivid dreams EVER ever ever ever ever...but these are pretty scary to me. They started probably in my junior year of high school and got the worst my freshmen year of college. This is how it usually goes...

As soon as I close my eyes I wouldn't be able to move, I would have to struggle to wake up out of what ever was happening to me. When they first started that's all it was. I would just have to wake myself up forcefully, but when I woke up I would be physically tired from breaking the dream as if I was forcing my way through something. At first I wouldn't pay much attention to it, I thought maybe it was just a strange nightmare.

Freshmen year started though and the nightmare started to get worse. There is now a black dark figure in front of me, everything is blurry but I'm there and I can just see enough of him to be terrified to the bone and the world would start shaking. Waking up became harder and I would wake up feeling like I had been through a pretty good workout. The nightmare hit its peak the night the dark figure grabbed my arm and I struggled to wake up. When I finally woke up my arm was in so much pain like it could have been broken or bruised. That night, every single time I tried to lay down and close my eyes I would go into that world and then fight to wake up over and over again. Every time I would be in more pain. I finally had enough and called my ENFP friend. Told her what was happening at 4am in the morning and she prayed with me and stayed on the phone with me all night while I slept against the wall sitting up. Mind you I felt weak for turning my back on my stance and depending on the prayer. I was weak...but I'm thankful.

That's why I can't write it God off anymore because of that night. I can ignore it because I'm great at ignoring my problems, but I can no longer say that I don't believe at least a little.

The INFJ (Catholic)

I have an INFJ friend who surprised me recently. I make friends pretty easily but close deep friends within just a few conversations? Hardly ever. When I first met her I took her for the A-typical party girl. I mean her house is the party house. I would say that she definitely does not lead as "holy" of a life as my ENFP friend.

When she first and so freely shared her experience with me I was pretty startled. Personally I keep this stuff to myself or to the ENFP and that was it. I had only talked to her two or three times... I guess it was because our conversation reminded me a lot like my other friend and that's how we really started hitting it off (as friends). Our experiences are just so eerily similar. She told me of the same problem I had, but that she has even more vivid dreams about demons and spirits. She says that she can sense the presences of demons and angels. She can feel negative energy like super fast...its kind of scary. I like to believe that I can fake being happy but not around her. She can even tell when I'm feeling like shit when we're just texting. All of this is what lead to my curiosity of her type and I asked her if she wanted to find out what her personality was. She came out INFJ and shes pretty interested in mbti now too.


Conclusion

Its now 8:30 and I just wanted to know if anyone else has experiences or thoughts or comments on this? Do other INFJ have such strong connections to a "spirtual world" of any sorts? Is it something about the Intuitive side of things because ENFP also have a strong intuitive side. I've been thinking that this is our main difference. That because I'm more sensory that I can't grasp onto it as well as they can. I'd like to hear others opinions.


O M G I NEED TO SLEEP.

[Collossus]

Yes, I can totally relate to your INFJ friend. I also talk to god but I completely dislike the bible (the catholic one even more so). I am definately connected to a 'spiritual world' and I don't feel emotions 'super fast', actually I feel them even before the others are aware of it.
In my world (or point of view) there is no such thing like hell, it is just now knowing that you already are in heaven; the same applies for angels for deamons: they are all angels, but some are not aware of the love they posses.

The dark presence is usually related to sleep paralysis which will help you better understand what's happening. To take it on the spiritual side, your own loses his body: you are left with your mind and your soul. Nowadays, people tend to make the soul appear disconnected from them (soul may also be known as god), and your mind takes over your body. When you fall asleep, the body is 'shut down', your mind loses its cover and it's left 'against' your soul. In this moment, mind gets really scared because this is an unknown event for it and pulls triggers: one of them is the shadow presence. Hate is not the opposite of love, but fear. Fear is the source of any problem. Just like a bible, your mind tries to scare you in order to ignore your soul.
Anyway, in the end everyone returns to his soul no matter what mind says, but the problem is that at this very moment the things are not going on the way you have chosen. Very well, then pick something else, pick love, pick god, pick anything you want. Some may say this doesn't work, but it does, they just didn't actually pick up what they wanted to, and this is related to self-awareness.

Lack of self-awareness leads to fear. For example, if in your dream you would know that you are yourself, the god's friend, keeper of light or anything that you think it would have made you feel like that creature can't touch you, then so it would have been.

Your ENFP friend almost lied to you. God haven't picked anything at all for her, neither for anyone else. He wouldn't do anything until asked. In fact, she asked god to give her the plan she made herself and tests also made by her. She just doesn't remember she did. So God has nothing to do with your problem, it is you who asked him to give these problems to you because you wanted them to show you something. This is the game we play: we know everything, but we consciously loose them into unconsciousness and then release it in order to analyze it little by little and see how perfect and awesome every little thing is. You don't like the way the game evolves anymore, then just choose something else, without feeling 'forced' to give something in return (anyway, you wouldn't have anything that god already hasn't and he never asked something from you)

A prayer and a cross works only if you believe it does. But remember that in the end you are the most powerful tool for bringing love and peace into your life. The best prayer you could ever say is just thanking for everything you have and you ever had or will have (but not necessarly to god, you can even thank yourself).
PS: God is for me a 'he', but the fact is that 'he' is anything or anyone we choose.

I had a similar problem. But at some point I realised that trying to resist is useless so I just smiled and let the shadow come to me. And he hugged me so wonderfully just like an old lost friend would have... (end )

[talon235]

I had a similar problem. But at some point I realised that trying to resist is useless so I just smiled and let the shadow come to me. And he hugged me so wonderfully just like an old lost friend would have... (end )

I tried not resisting at some point in time and just letting him touch me. I didn't feel the love necessarily I just felt like I do when I get stubborn with my mom. I have since then faced the shadow many more times but I'm used to it now so there is no terror. Sometimes it is still too much for me though, I still can feel the world shake, I still hate being there so last night I couldn't sleep. Usually I have to make my self so tired that I can sleep past the dream. I don't know this is how I deal with the sleep paralysis. You're ideas are very interesting though. I will have to see for myself.

I agree with your notion that the cross and a prayer only works if you believe it will. I personally reject the notion but I respect my friends beliefs. I don't think that she wants to lie to me, I just tend to accept that this is the way she is going to be and that its what she really believes and that's okay. I also don't buy into the whole bible thing. The reason I don't want to put my faith in these christian religions is because I couldn't believe that a good God would let my grandmother go to hell just because she didn't believe in some prodigal son. My grandmother wakes up every day at 4-6 am STILL to pray for her entire family for at least 4 hours.

[ronnie]

Interesting thread! I definitely get 'communications' via my dreams. Especially since my parents died, I have most definitely gotten in touch with both of them multiple times since their deaths.

[talon235]

So God has nothing to do with your problem, it is you who asked him to give these problems to you because you wanted them to show you something.

Also it's not that I blame God for my problems. I definitely take responsibility for all of my own mistakes, for me its just always been the notion with religion of "if you don't believe this than you cannot be welcome to heaven". I think family is the main reason I reject that kind of faith because if I accepted such a doctrine I would be condemning those I love in my own mind. I guess that's where all this love hate is. I just hate the mainstream version of God... I just need to find my own peace with my own view on him or her.

Interesting thread! I definitely get 'communications' via my dreams. Especially since my parents died, I have most definitely gotten in touch with both of them multiple times since their deaths.

My INFJ friend definitely tells me stories about seeing her friends who have passed away and speaking with them multiple times as well. I wonder now what type my grandmother is... she has always talked of speaking with my grandfather and all kinds of spirits herself.

[teabiscits]

i'm always analysing my dreams and looking to see what they might mean. i had a dream the other night that i was washing dirty stinky dishes and this insect was crawling on the worktop, it turned into a huge multi coloured bird and flew off but then hit into a wall. i've been kind of cleaning out my soul these last few days and admiting things to myself about myself that are a bit unpleasant. do u think maybe the dream symbolises a new shinier me about to emerge? the fact that it hit a wall might mean i still have a long way to go yet? it was the coolest looking bird ever!

[thatguy]

I haven't read all the posts I'm afraid, (because I'm really tired) but I read your opener talon, and it sounds in all seriousness like there is a spiritual battle being fought around/over you, it also sounds like you have a smart and caring friend there (the ENFP specifically) and I would listen to her.
This would be considered subjective advice by many people because I happen to believe in the God your ENFP friend seems to, but this doesn't really bother me.
I make a bit of a point of not posting religious stuff on the forum because it's usually pretty useless as it turns into a heartless debate most often, but something got to me reading your post. I said a prayer for you and I sincerely hope this neither offends nor bothers you and that this uncool dream stuff stops.
Laters.

[talon235]

i'm always analysing my dreams and looking to see what they might mean. i had a dream the other night that i was washing dirty stinky dishes and this insect was crawling on the worktop, it turned into a huge multi coloured bird and flew off but then hit into a wall. i've been kind of cleaning out my soul these last few days and admiting things to myself about myself that are a bit unpleasant. do u think maybe the dream symbolises a new shinier me about to emerge? the fact that it hit a wall might mean i still have a long way to go yet? it was the coolest looking bird ever!

I have no idea what it could mean but that sounds pretty cool though. I never have any vivid dreams, I wish I did.

I haven't read all the posts I'm afraid, (because I'm really tired) but I read your opener talon, and it sounds in all seriousness like there is a spiritual battle being fought around/over you, it also sounds like you have a smart and caring friend there (the ENFP specifically) and I would listen to her.
This would be considered subjective advice by many people because I happen to believe in the God your ENFP friend seems to, but this doesn't really bother me.
I make a bit of a point of not posting religious stuff on the forum because it's usually pretty useless as it turns into a heartless debate most often, but something got to me reading your post. I said a prayer for you and I sincerely hope this neither offends nor bothers you and that this uncool dream stuff stops.
Laters.

No worries man. I respect all especially what my friend believes, I would never look down on her or anyone for her beliefs. thank you for your prayers

[Collossus]

I agree with your notion that the cross and a prayer only works if you believe it will. I personally reject the notion but I respect my friends beliefs. I don't think that she wants to lie to me, I just tend to accept that this is the way she is going to be and that its what she really believes and that's okay. I also don't buy into the whole bible thing. The reason I don't want to put my faith in these christian religions is because I couldn't believe that a good God would let my grandmother go to hell just because she didn't believe in some prodigal son. My grandmother wakes up every day at 4-6 am STILL to pray for her entire family for at least 4 hours.

I didn't say she actually lied, she just missed some points because of the stubborness given by the christian religion. Before telling you god has given her a big role and tests, she should have said that she has chosen these, and this is the reason why god also has chosen it for her.
If god would let anyone go to hell, then it would make a big nonsense. In this case, why we would be free to choose? God created us so he could as easily make us robots and do exactly what he wants, but he didn't. Then why would he punish us for something we didn't do? He picked up freedom and relativity for us, so he took the responsability for it. This is why he never gets involved unless asked and there is no such thing like hell, because we never do something 'wrong', it is just what we have chosen to be.

I didn't mean to say that you blame god for your problems. I just wanted to point out that god didn't give you this and want to show you something, you have chosen for yourself.
If you dislike the mainstream god then it is not your god. As you said, your god is your peace. So, because the 'mainstream god' does not exist for you, then it makes no sense to hate something that doesn't exist, just ignore it.

[anapuna]

If you dislike the mainstream god then it is not your god. As you said, your god is your peace. So, because the 'mainstream god' does not exist for you, then it makes no sense to hate something that doesn't exist, just ignore it.

if only more people would see your wisdom/views. **sighs**

i'm pretty much all for collossus's sugestions, please take it to heart.

on the crosses to ward off demons and spirits. you don't need it, neither should your friend. i will call this my opinion (so as not to start some crappy flame war with a bad christian). faith is pretty much a 2 part item to me. it is made of
A) believe
B) conviction

you can believe what you want. god/shamanism/the holy spork of gonzu, i don't care. the belief is your vehicle. the conviction is your fuel. you can have a shiny new vehicle that looks nice in the magazine, but... the crappy ford pinto will beat it to the finish line every time if you don't have enough fuel (conviction).

so i say have faith in your self first. believe who you are and have the conviction to reinforce it and not let others sway you or tell how to do it. there is nothing wrong with asking for opinions and help. sometimes someone else may think of something that we over looked. as long as you would really take it to heart on your own with out any help, i feel it may be ok to accept (please just not blindly).

so

1) believe in yourself
2) look at your self in another light when need be
3) WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS then see about a higher power. because people end up getting too relient on a higher power and make it a crutch that they never part with.

to all the "religious" types who may snarl a bit at #3. i believe the phrase is "walk in the grace of god". not "limp". now you might get my point.

or better yet he may be a hand up not a hand out.
or

give a man a fish feed him tonight. teach him, feed him for life.



peace out