Let's Analyze Taylor Swift...

Originally Posted by The Ultimate Square Peg

@paper lilies - since I'm going to be adding my opinion in a few days, I'm interested to know... What kind of information do you consider valid? Which resources do you think should be referenced? You said that velvetoveralls was still pulling news articles and quotes,so Im wondering what kind of material you would like to see instead of that. :)

Quotes and information are all fine and dandy but it's being able to read in to them to see which functions she is using. Valid information for me is legitimate examples of cognitive functions. Not stereotypical, "Ni creates fantasy worlds" or "N's see the bigger picture". If others think she is INFJ, where is the Ni? Where is the inferior Se? That's what I'd like to see. Others claiming Fe+Si have given examples within her quotes, interviews and information and within a JCF context. I have not seen anyone claiming that she is an NF do more than shoot stereotypes around or try to make her likes and dislikes out to be an NF image.

Originally Posted by paper lilies

Quotes and information are all fine and dandy but it's being able to read in to them to see which functions she is using. Valid information for me is legitimate examples of cognitive functions. Not stereotypical, "Ni creates fantasy worlds" or "N's see the bigger picture". If others think she is INFJ, where is the Ni? Where is the inferior Se? That's what I'd like to see. Others claiming Fe+Si have given examples within her quotes, interviews and information and within a JCF context. I have not seen anyone claiming that she is an NF do more than shoot stereotypes around or try to make her likes and dislikes out to be an NF image.

Would you mind giving what you consider to be veritable examples of cognitive functions Ni and Se?

Originally Posted by velvetoveralls

Would you mind giving what you consider to be veritable examples of cognitive functions Ni and Se?

Ni: Attempts to conceive the future, possible contingences, and significance of things.
Se: Being aware of one's immediate surroundings and using the five senses to immediately react to them.
Fe: Concerned with finding harmony and abiding by social structures based on subjective beliefs and experiences.
Si: Looks at past and current concrete situations and data.

How many times can Taylor Swift be caught saying,
"They should have done" and "I should have known"?
Another example:
"I go back to December all the time."
That's Fe-Si, not Ni-Fe.

isfp taylor swift

Taylor Swift is not INFJ. no offense to her but her "style" is too childish to have Ni. all these fairytale, princess gowns, and whining about ex boyfriends honestly makes me want to hit her upside the head. grow up. though she most definitely has Fe.
i can tell an INFJ from their stare. they have that deadly "i can see right into your naked soul" look.

Originally Posted by paper lilies

Ni: Attempts to conceive the future, possible contingences, and significance of things.

I said this already, but Taylor is extremely future-oriented. She has her schedule planned out for the next year and a half.... She's always talking about what "could be" ("We could be a beautiful, miracle, unbelievable, instead of just invisible"), and she says she wants to go on with life always believing that the highlight of her life is yet to come. She always says she plans ten steps ahead, and I already named a bunch of songs in an earlier page that show how she is future-oriented. Just because she looks back into the past doesn't mean she's Si. I'm Ni, and I look into the past tons! A bad habit of mine is that I go over events in my mind almost obsessively, pondering and overanalyzing, scolding myself for things I did wrong. Also, Taylor doesn't look at "current concrete situations and data." She doesn't look at facts -- I mean, that's how she was so driven! If she believed in data and facts, she would have been easily deterred by her odds to achieve stardom. I'm starting to get frustrated because I don't think you've actually read my previous posts, or at least not thoroughly.

*Se -- Experiencing and noticing the physical world, scanning for visible reactions and relevant data.

Being attracted to and/or distracted by changing external events. Adapting and changing your mind according to the situation. Focusing on facts. Asking lots of questions to get enough information to see the pattern. Going ahead and responding to raw data. Physical self-expression.

*Si -- Recalling past experiences, remembering detailed data and what it is linked to.

Being heavily influenced by prior experiences. Distrusting new information that doesn't match. Assuming an understanding of a situation because it resembles a prior one. Focusing on facts and stored data. Giving lots of specific, sequential details about something. Rating and making comparison.

How many times has Taylor fallen into the trap again and again of falling for a douchebag? She has said before, "The hardest lessons to learn are the ones you have to learn many times."
Other quotes:

“The lesson I've learned the most often in life is that you're always going to know more in the future than you know now.”

“I’ve learned that you can’t predict [love] or plan for it. For someone like me who is obsessed with organization and planning, I love the idea that love is the one exception to that. Love is the one wild card.”

“I haven't had that one great love, which is good. I don't want that to be in the past, I want it to be in the future.”

“Life isn't how to survive the storm; it's about how to dance in the rain.”

“These days, I've been trying to classify my thoughts into two categories: 'Things I can change' and 'Things I can't [change]'. It seems to help me sort through what to really stress about. But there I go again, over-planning and over-organizing my over-thinking! I write songs about my adventures and misadventures, most of which concern love. Love is a tricky business. But if it wasn't, I wouldn't be so enthralled with it. Lately I've come to a wonderful realization that makes me even more fascinated by it: I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to love. No one does! There's no pattern to it, except that it happens to all of us, of course. I can't plan for it. I can't predict how it'll end up. Because love is unpredictable and it's frustrating and it's tragic and it's beautiful. And even though there's no way to feel like I'm an expert at it, it's worth writing songs about -- more than anything else I've ever experienced in my life.”

“You'll always know more in the future than you know now.”

“You can't have a better tomorrow if you keep thinking about yesterday.”

“Live your life like you're eighty looking back on your teenager years. You know if your dad calls you at eight in the morning and asks if you want to go out for breakfast, as a teenager you're like, 'No, I want to sleep.' But as an eighty-year-old looking back, you have that breakfast with your dad. It's just little things like that that helped me when I was a teenager in terms of making choices you won't regret.”

^^I do that, too.

“I watched their reactions and emotions, especially to understand what was what I was doing wrong. But then I realized that if I could see these people and take note of everything I saw, I could write a good song.”

“When I was 9 or 10, I used to get all the lead roles because I was the tallest person. But my interest in music soon drew me to country music. I was infatuated with the sound, with the storytelling. I could relate to it. I can't really tell you why. With me, it was just instinctual.”

Originally Posted by 1234luvluv

Taylor Swift is not INFJ. no offense to her but her "style" is too childish to have Ni. all these fairytale, princess gowns, and whining about ex boyfriends honestly makes me want to hit her upside the head. grow up. though she most definitely has Fe.
i can tell an INFJ from their stare. they have that deadly "i can see right into your naked soul" look.

I'm pretty sure you're saying this just because you personally dislike her. Whatever your opinion, INFJs focus on fantasy more than reality.
And personally, I do feel that Taylor has INFJ eyes.

Ni is more then simply looking ahead so to speak. It's a completely different headspace from that. Looking ahead could just as easily be inferior Ne. In order to find out where Taylor's head space is we would have to look at where she thinks most of the time (none of us can do that, but we can look at what she tells us and extrapolate from there). What she tells us is that she operates more from a Fe+Si part then a Ni way of thinking, IMO.

A Ni-dom is completely preoccupied with their path of the future and completely immersed in structuring that path threw detailed information to give them the best understanding of what could happen. They need to look at things from all sides in order to plan or foresee what could happen. Taylor's framework is not operating in that way. I think that's pretty obvious personally but I would love to see some responses to say she does.

I would say if you want to look at a Ni-type mind I would say the best way to look at them would be to compare someone like Mark Zuckerburg, Marilyn Manson or Ann Coutler (I don't know precisely what their types are, but the way in which they approach their work seems very Ni-esque by comparison to Taylor) to her. They come up with ideas and then it's like an immense project of filtering information to see what effects are caused from their ideas. They look at things from a ton of angles in order to see the effects from their idea in order to cause a reaction or a change (Te or Fe). In general Ni seems very chess-master like. Taylor does not seem like that at all. She doesn't seem to look at things from all directions in order to find the answer or figure things out. She is not looking at things from multiple areas in an effort to figure out the best solution she is focused much more on what has happened in the past. What is in the past will happen in the future (Si). She just feels whatever she feels and then she uses past information to give that feeling better context. Even in the quote you mentioned above she says that we must learn lessons multiple times before we learn the truth of something. That is classic Si+Fe thinking. The past will happen again. That's the way most of her stuff is.

Ni is a completely different animal then Si, if Taylor was a Ni-dom she would probably be dripping with it, too much about Taylor's work focuses on what she was and references far too much of the past for her to be a Ni-dom. Ni has a very distinct flavor it comes across as being very broad, encompassing or long ranging in it's effect to push something toward a change (usually because it's attached to Te or Fe which is about the external world). It can seem very stubborn at times in a way because it takes in a large amount of information in order to find a fixed point for the ego.

I have to say that I don't think Ni is inside her at all. Ni has a way of seeming very focused and defined. Ne is a lot more congenial and is more concerned with possibilities that don't mean anything. I would say Ne is more fantasizing, while Ni is more constructive. The introverted functions lead more to building, while the extroverted functions lead more to taking from the external by imagining and effecting.

Look at any of her songs and most of her material or even look at her interviews and check up on her answers. She is always talking about what has happened to her, never seems to try and take on different hats in understanding multiple positions, never seems to use devil's advocate statements, never does it look or seem like she is trying to find at other positions or counteractive information. It all comes down to past things that define her or past things that happened to her that she wanted to change.

Either she wasn't the most popular girl in school or it's about her music career and writing camps in Nashville. Either it's about her family or it's about her roots. Either it's about her relationships in Hollywood or it's about her fans. Everything she talks about is harking back to her past or shared experiences that are happening to her now that are becoming her past and making up her future (Si-Ne). Pretty much the entirety of her work is talking about the bad relationships she has had with boys or other relationships that are in the past and how those relationships may grow into something else (Si+Fe and tert. or inferior Ne).

No Ni-dom would be that immersed in past information, past facts and that overly concerned with details of past information unless it could be used to help them plan for the future. Taylor's work is too much based on past information. She's not using Ni, not in my opinion.

Originally Posted by velvetoveralls

I said this already, but Taylor is extremely future-oriented. She has her schedule planned out for the next year and a half.... She's always talking about what "could be" ("We could be a beautiful, miracle, unbelievable, instead of just invisible"), and she says she wants to go on with life always believing that the highlight of her life is yet to come. She always says she plans ten steps ahead, and I already named a bunch of songs in an earlier page that show how she is future-oriented. Just because she looks back into the past doesn't mean she's Si. I'm Ni, and I look into the past tons! A bad habit of mine is that I go over events in my mind almost obsessively, pondering and overanalyzing, scolding myself for things I did wrong. Also, Taylor doesn't look at "current concrete situations and data." She doesn't look at facts -- I mean, that's how she was so driven! If she believed in data and facts, she would have been easily deterred by her odds to achieve stardom. I'm starting to get frustrated because I don't think you've actually read my previous posts, or at least not thoroughly.


How many times has Taylor fallen into the trap again and again of falling for a douchebag? She has said before, "The hardest lessons to learn are the ones you have to learn many times."
Other quotes:












I'm pretty sure you're saying this just because you personally dislike her. Whatever your opinion, INFJs focus on fantasy more than reality.
And personally, I do feel that Taylor has INFJ eyes.

The more you type the more you are proving Si- especially with what I have bolded.
You are also proving tertiary Ne as well.
Also, do not try to attempt to irrationally understand my motivations.
Especially considering that they're very wrong and I happen to enjoy Taylor Swift very much.
Again, personality type has nothing to do with physical features.
Learn about Jungian Cognitive Functions and then we can have a proper conversation.
Until then I am done discussing this with you.

I can't believe it took me this long to come to terms with this, but I'm here laying on bed thinking about this thread, and suddenly realizing... I no longer enjoy this thread! It's not the lighthearted or safe discussion I'd hoped it would be, and it's stressing me out.
So, I'm resigning from this discussion; I'll do my own personal research and come to my conclusions in that way instead.
I'm calling this, for me, agreeing to disagree over the intuition v.s. sensing debate.
feel free to continue discussing, but consider me out of the discussion now. :)

Originally Posted by Sparky

Examples of ENTP that people mistype as Feelers include Justin Bieber, Princess Diana, and Britney Spears.

I hate being rude, (sometimes) but how to you type people?

Bieber is probably an ESFJ, Diana ISFJ, Britney ISFP, and Taylor Swift oozes high Fe, and her Si screams out to me.