Gender equality will never be achieved.

I must admit, I don't think I'd ever imagined that one day, I would have to grade the Bieb's masculinity vis a vis standard norms, but thus pressed, it looks like an 8. Likes sports, tried to hide his music stuff early on, chicks dig him, isn't afraid to have some controversial stances. He's actually pretty masculine when you pull him out of his fan base, it would seem.

I like your analogy. A nail is a nail. It's differentiated by which side it supports, but ultimately, they're all working at the same task, keeping the board down. I'm not sure where you're going with it on the topic of exercising potentials though. Could you expand?

A long time ago, only men could use oil paints. Females can only use oil pastels because dry media is perceived to be easier for the brain than oils.

I wonder how much of this assumptions is valid (beside the fact that my art school is filled with estrogen doing oil paintings) because women also faint from wearing corsets. If the men back then can paint with a corset on their crotch based on the belief that wide hips on men are not sexually desirable, that'd be the day. They'd be in so much troublesome matters because the hips can't balance muscle weight in the top or legs.

Anyways, I digress. I'm just thinking that if a single woman bests a 100 genius men in a "man" thing, then she is not a female miracle and she doesn't justify "female". If the rule that "female can only exercise their potentials in cooking, cleaning, nurturing and fucking" still persists, then society just wasted a genius. If society says "only people who have proven to be good at x,y, and z and acted accordingly", then gender inequality doesn't matter. We'll just have a different type of inequality.

No one likes to be judged.

This equality stuff has to do with "material power though."

People should care less about material power and care more about spiritual power.

For all I'm concerned it is better to be a minority of material power because it forces you to look at injustice and hopefully have a chance at becoming empathetic and loving.

As far as "it feels bad to be judged."

Everyone is judged prematurely.

Gender equality, or more importantly, minority equality in the material power sense, would benefit those in power now, since it would help them become more empathetic after they shared their power.

It wouldn't help those currently being oppressed very much though.

Early life stress translates to desperation which gives a person a better shot at self actualization.

I'm not saying equality isn't a valid subject.

I'm saying, material equality is the wrong subject, and an indirect means of achieving the right kind of growth.

And there are better things to focus on.

However, this is better than many things, so for all of us, a step in the right direction is what counts, and this can often be that.

:)

Originally Posted by Wakachi

A long time ago, only men could use oil paints. Females can only use oil pastels because dry media is perceived to be easier for the brain than oils.

I wonder how much of this assumptions is valid (beside the fact that my art school is filled with estrogen doing oil paintings) because women also faint from wearing corsets. If the men back then can paint with a corset on their crotch based on the belief that wide hips on men are not sexually desirable, that'd be the day. They'd be in so much troublesome matters because the hips can't balance muscle weight in the top or legs.

Anyways, I digress. I'm just thinking that if a single woman bests a 100 genius men in a "man" thing, then she is not a female miracle and she doesn't justify "female". If the rule that "female can only exercise their potentials in cooking, cleaning, nurturing and fucking" still persists, then society just wasted a genius. If society says "only people who have proven to be good at x,y, and z and acted accordingly", then gender inequality doesn't matter. We'll just have a different type of inequality.

Ah, so you're talking about appropriate distribution of labor since it helps society the most (and also, since a person is pursuing their greatest talent, individual fulfilment as well).

Interestingly, in the twentieth century, I think that ideal get's a chance to be seen during wars. The whole rosie the riveter thing. Not perfect, but it allowed for an expansion for women to find they had skills they hadn't had a chance to develop yet, and many were probably happier for it.

Originally Posted by bellisaurius

Ah, so you're talking about appropriate distribution of labor since it helps society the most (and also, since a person is pursuing their greatest talent, individual fulfilment as well).

Interestingly, in the twentieth century, I think that ideal get's a chance to be seen during wars. The whole rosie the riveter thing. Not perfect, but it allowed for an expansion for women to find they had skills they hadn't had a chance to develop yet, and many were probably happier for it.

Why must wars/self-defense initiate so much of this skill-finding?

Wait, don't answer. Wakachi is already sad.

Originally Posted by Wakachi

Why must wars/self-defense initiate so much of this skill-finding?.

Necessity. It's the quickest way around cultural norms.

Originally Posted by Ziwosa

It just occurred to me that for as long as the desire for sex isn't equal between genders, there can be no equality between them.

Now of course, certain gender roles have nothing to do with a sexual desire, but it seems to me that this is the one that's probably never going to be equal. And it's also the one that's the root cause for a lot of gender differences.

Anyone disagree? This is the internet after all.

Men have more testosterone, yes, but I think that a lot of the problems that are in today's society (some of the extreme violence against women, the objectification of women, the language surrounding women, the pressure women feel to look good etc.. is related to deeply rooted social constructs.

I believe that part of the reason you even have this opinion is because of how you were raised in your city, state, and country. The world has issues. For example, in India, a week and a half ago a father cut off his 20 year old daughter's head and paraded it around the town, because he thought she was being promiscuous. He carried her severed head to the police station. In a country where women hold high positions in government and are CEO's of companies, their behavior is still under extreme scrutiny. That is just one example. I research and read about these things.

My opinion is: I don't believe for one second that MEN are the problem! I believe there is hope for the future. Not all men in the world revel in the fact that they are top dog. I think that sexism is so deeply rooted in society that people are not even conscious of how bad it actually is. It is almost like it was a virus that spread long ago when one d!ckhead realized he was stronger than "women folk" and could take advantage of them.

Now it is everywhere, even in subtle ways. It is in every fiber of our society and therefore, our subconscious being. Until others become aware of how we are affected by it, nothing CAN change.

http://nonpartisanplanetproject.file...xism-keys1.jpg

^This is a magazine advertisement I found in an audio engineering magazine in 2010. I'm a music producer. Yeaah..

I think that, at least in the US, genders are already pretty equal. Any person only has to take what is in their sight, and I think that a bigger sight will improve gender differences along with economic differences. Although some differences only serve to make life more truly interesting. Similarity is not a good thing in people, short of high levels of reasonability(but that's not gonna happen anytime soon).


In other countries, the level of respect women are afforded is definitely out of proportion with men. It's sickening to see women being treated poorly simply for their gender. This seems cruel, but I think the best good for humanity in total comes from letting these things run their course. Their is wisdom in popular dissonance, it breeds ideas, better than those born from sameness.(and those ideas will, in a perfect world, serve humanity more than a life.)

I'm an inbred asshole, I know.

Originally Posted by tangosthenes

I think that, at least in the US, genders are already pretty equal.

If you were on the unequal end, would you settle?

How exactly are they pretty equal? In what ways do you think they are not equal?

I'm in the music industry. There is a lot of sexism that I know of just within my field. I'm a music producer, audio engineer, and composer. I've been paid a lot of money so far to do what I do and have worked with Sony, Google, and Superfad, to name a few companies. I work on video games, films, and produce albums, but still I get disrespected when I order equipment or go into a store by men who have preconceived notions of how capable women are and what their roles are.

For example:
I go into a store to buy a few items I need for my studio in Scotland while I am out of the states. I go up to the counter and explain I need the M-audio interface that is on the shelf. "Oh, what do you need that for? Is someone going to record you? Are you a singer?" There are many things wrong there, but why is it always assumed that if a female is in music she is a singer? I actually compose, record, edit, produce, and mix! COOL HUH. "WOAH!! That is amazing!! For a woman..." Sadly and annoyingly, this has happened nearly every time I go into a store.

Sexism is a daily thing. It is an ass grab in the grocery store, feeling unsafe to take a walk, the current wage gap, it is staring at images of perfect women and feeling fat all the time, it is feeling afraid to walk outside without doing my makeup, it is getting called bitch in the street, it is getting called "fat" while jogging (at the time I was a size 8), it is getting followed by 4 guys and cornered, it is daily having my appearance commented on or criticized, it is reading stories of women in my country getting abused and mistreated, it is simply watching TV sometimes.

Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by christicake

If you were on the unequal end, would you settle?

How exactly are they pretty equal? In what ways do you think they are not equal?

I'm in the music industry. There is a lot of sexism that I know of just within my field. I'm a music producer, audio engineer, and composer. I've been paid a lot of money so far to do what I do and have worked with Sony, Google, and Superfad, to name a few companies. I work on video games, films, and produce albums, but still I get disrespected when I order equipment or go into a store by men who have preconceived notions of how capable women are and what their roles are.

For example:
I go into a store to buy a few items I need for my studio in Scotland while I am out of the states. I go up to the counter and explain I need the M-audio interface that is on the shelf. "Oh, what do you need that for? Is someone going to record you? Are you a singer?" There are many things wrong there, but why is it always assumed that if a female is in music she is a singer? I actually compose, record, edit, produce, and mix! COOL HUH. "WOAH!! That is amazing!! For a woman..." Sadly and annoyingly, this has happened nearly every time I go into a store.

Sexism is a daily thing. It is an ass grab in the grocery store, feeling unsafe to take a walk, the current wage gap, it is staring at images of perfect women and feeling fat all the time, it is feeling afraid to walk outside without doing my makeup, it is getting called bitch in the street, it is getting called "fat" while jogging (at the time I was a size 8), it is getting followed by 4 guys and cornered, it is daily having my appearance commented on or criticized, it is reading stories of women in my country getting abused and mistreated, it is simply watching TV sometimes.

Just my thoughts.

Obviously I can't comment on the feeling unsafe aspect of it, but it is your appearance is your choice. Men are criticized for their dress too. Think if a man were to wear makeup? The wage gaP is unfortunate, can't comment on that either. As far as the "women can't be technical," is that really something that affects you directly? A few idle words that you assume the meaning of? Did it actually hamper your ability to get what you wanted at the store?
Men are expected not to hit women and be the "rock" of a family, never showing pain or remorse.

But these things are changing. Given the current trend, you have little to worry about besides crime(which is not something to be glossed over).

If I were on the unequal end, given the positive trend, would celebrate my gains and encourage them more, but not to the point where individual freedoms were compromised. In other words, we are at the point where little can be reliably changed through law without bending it in perverse ways(IMO, maybe not in yours).

The above is only for the US, not any other part of the world.