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This is a discussion on ESTP Enneagram Ones within the ESTP Forum - The Doers forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; Originally Posted by Eggybread ...I guess I forgot to include the important literal clause that these generalizations are meant to ...
You still haven't got her to take the test eh? I don't think she is an ESTP. If she is she is depressed. Feelers can and do hurt feelings. Feeler Judgers certainly can and I know an ENFJ who loves causing fights (on purpose).Originally Posted by Eggybread
No, I wouldn't ask her to take the test and she wouldn't: it has no practical application in the world of objects and the here and now, and she's busy doing other things, and she couldn't set aside a scheduled time to do it because it's not important, she has other priorities (and hey, her emotions, or anybody's emotions, can't get in the way of facts and the present and what needs to be done). And she doesn't schedule personal things (though she keeps thinking she *should*). She's not a J, I don't know how many more times I can say this. She likes to go out with people; she has a lot of friends, and she doesn't really think before she speaks. She can be kind and sympathetic; she's a wonderful, independently practicing physician and her patients love her (even though she's never running on time -- of course, she never argues with them), but she's a professional and she wants to help people, she's not a Feeling person. If this were my dad we were talking about, no one would question his Thinking.
One makes you criticize, and One makes you judgmental and perfectionistic and feel overburdened. It can't actually make you a J if you don't have one.
I wouldn't be surprised if she's depressed, I wouldn't be surprised if One were making her depressed, but she's a depressed ESTP. So she just keeps going.
Extraverted Feeling
Though only a minor character, Feeling plays an important role in a favorite pastime of ESTPs. This is not to say that ESTPs don't care deeply for others, yet Feeling is such a ready hand-puppet, expedient in disarming the "victim" and exposing the jugular. Sincere Feeling is tertiary and thus relatively simplistic in this type. As such, it can be the undoing of ESTPs at the hands of those they (perhaps unconsciously) come to trust.
Introverted iNtuition
In the inferior (fourth) position, intuition may be virtually absent much of the time. Haziness of inner, symbolic vision is the psychic price of the clarity of sensory awareness. As do other SPs, ESTPs reserve a certain "gut" sense of timing and luck. When repression and stress empower the Shadow, it likely finds expression through intuition in stereotypic perceptions of groups and individuals whom it perceives as hostile or hurtful.
...Yeah, that pretty much describes my mom, I'd like to point out....
So I'm curious: Is the Shadow supposed to be (negative) ISTJ, or (negative) INFJ?
I've always heard INFJ is supposed to be the shadow... But when I'm in a depressed state of mind I resemble an INTP more than any other type.
I keep getting classified as an ESTP [although I've also tested INTJ a few times] and I am an 8 on the Enneagram. My mother, however, is a One, and matches my personality pretty similarly, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible for her to be ESTP.
hi! i'm an estp and an ennegram 1. match both descriptions to a t. so yes it's possible. i am stressed most of the time. in fact, sometimes i think i'm crazy. then think it through and i'm pretty sure i'm not. i like things a certain way and i've been trying to let go of the fact that not everything can be perfect (but close to perfect is fine!). the only way i can prevent myself from getting stressed about the perfection in anything is telling myself that i don't care about it. or trying to think of something else. artisians are perfectionists. and usually good at everything. so if i can perfect what i'm interested in, i feel a lot better. i will do it over and over and over until it is perfect. i don't believe in perfect and ultimate perfect, so it's hard (i've been playing violin for years and i will never be the best (until i make it to 1st chair of the best orchestra in the world). i've been trying to redecorate my room and i don't want to start until i find everything i want. if i don't have exactly what i'm looking for, i won't buy it. i'll keep looking until i find something i like just as much or the exact thing (referring to the bed i want but still can't find). anyway, yeah that's pretty much it. i'm definitely an ESTP and definitely a type 1. i read up on type 7 (apparently a lot of ESFPs and ESTPs are 7s) and it didn't fit like type 1 did. i'll also read this post several times before posting. and might edit after.
OK, for the past twelve years I've been calling myself a UU, though I worked from an awkward angle,as most of them sound like your post. Working from the heart. Censor yourself before you get censored....
For example, not being a J means you are LATE everywhere. (And it stresses you, and yet you can't change; just feel bad about it.) And you procrastinate because you want everything perfect like One says it needs to be and no one can do it as well as you can, and then feel self-critical, angry, and...guess what?
Stressed.
PUUULLEASE. You're in the ESTP forum where people have practical skills that says the "early bird gets the worm." "Early to bed early to rise, makes a man healthy wealthy and wise." You want to get fired, I'll follow your post, but I don't intend to get fired. I show up to work, take cab if I have to, uniform check, grooming excellent check, know what my employer expects from me check.
I want to add though, on a different note, I've also taken Enneagram, I'm a 7 with a 6 wing then a 3with 4 and the least used is an 8 with7. 1s are all the way to the other end. It says here, that when stressed 7s can become 1s,maybe that's what you're thinking? The irony here is you criticize,not saying it's bad, "striving to be perfect" but then have all this knowledge on 1s, when 1s are according to my "PersonalityCafe Comprehensive Enneagram Quiz" sheet-shameless plug there, but when a person wants information that's good...-that 1s are "perfectionist." Something to think about.
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A lot of this quoting post really verged on the fence of being inflammatory. Though I didn't get tired till 4:00 I wrote this rather late, and only saw parts of the engagement on this thread, and Eggybread was coming off as obnoxious. It wasn't till this morning I had the full experience of reading everyone's post, if my post comes off as "angry." I think all emotions there's a place for everything and everything in it's place.
Last edited by Brian1; 07-28-2011 at 09:28 AM.
Y'know, I really resent being told I'm obnoxious. I don't know how many more times I have to explain that the "you" I'm describing is one person, my mother. I'm trying to describe behavior as traits affect her, not any other ESTP or One (that I know of).
Better reading comprehension would be much appreciated.
I'm not even sure I understand what you want to say, other than you're acknowledging your post as "potentially inflammatory".
Can I ask, what do you think (or find) the biggest conflict between ESTP and One is?
You might want to consider the remark, "I know, well I do think she's an ESTP "at heart". I also think she's a One. And I believe this causes/would cause/could cause conflict. (You don't think being a One would stress people out, and even more so if you weren't actually a J?)", you may've thought well, but I learned the hard way sometimes emotions don't always translate to the screen from real life.
This post is where you diverge from asking questions to answers, to being insinuating. PersonalityCafe let's even the most uninformed learn through articles, and there are many of us, who have way more experience,some on this forum,that you don't need to be cute with your words. I am not a J and I am always on time. I never criticize myself cause that part of the brain don't work too well. If this is about your mother, all I see is generalization of people who aren't Js, who spend too much time criticizing themselves and their environment. Then you play therapist with you're "stressed" remark. I'm the most laid back person there is. I put off what I need to do, and right now I need to take a shower and it's around 1:30 pm. Nowhere do I see the word "mom", or "mother." Other people picked up on this. Safety in Numbers.:)
To me,and I'm only one person, lots of my judgements are entirely way off the mark, that doesn't sound like a person who is staying on message seeking help about their mother.It's not about "striving to be perfect" as much as it is "criticizing yourself [...and your environment, & people around you]" when things AREN'T like you think they SHOULD be.
For example, not being a J means you are LATE everywhere. (And it stresses you, and yet you can't change; just feel bad about it.) And you procrastinate because you want everything perfect like One says it needs to be and no one can do it as well as you can, and then feel self-critical, angry, and...guess what?
Stressed.
(And being an ET means you don't particularly care if you hurt someone's feelings when they aren't behaving like you think they should, and you will tell them more often than not, if they are around you long enough, more reactively than reflectively. And being an S means you NOTICE. All the time. Fortunately, being a One tells you there are "appropriate" and "inappropriate" situations to express that anger.)
...and the "appropriate" situations are not fun.
(And it's not like an Eight; you don't want to be angry, because anger is bad. And pointless. And you shouldn't have to be. If only you did things better or other people did.)
(...make anything clearer?)
Well that makes two of us. By the way, you cite in a different post you needed to present your material better. I believe it was here,
Yet, I'm thankful someone who is a One responded to you, so you can get what you originally came for-the help.
In kindness...Brian1
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