[elvis2010]

In our description it says slow learners and hyperactive. I know I have dysgraphia and bipolar disorder. And I think that's the reason why I'm a ESTP. Have any of you been diagnosed with anything?

Maenad, I have been working on MBTI and mental illness (God I hate that term) for years. Bipolar disorder does explain a lot of ESTP behaviors. The manic phase has us nailed: pleasure seeking, risk taking, extremely sensitive, fast talking, lacking depth, engaging in hypersexual behavior, and spending freely without saving any money. The depressed phase, as I am guessing you know, is not really feeling badly. It is a total lack of any feeling what so ever. True depressed bipolars would cut themselves just to feel something or even try to kill themselves. In the depressed phase, it is appropriate to call bipolars sociopathic because in this phase, they feel nothing for themselves or anyone else.

I personally have experienced mania many times, and it is associated with a surge in dopamine, and I love how I feel with that dopamine surge. I feel so alive, but I have never been in the depressed bipolar phase, the total lack of feeling. I have felt badly sure, but not suicidal. I have never even for one second felt like killing myself.

The term then for feeling one part of the bipolar spectrum is unipolar. And the thing I hate about "mental illness" is people consider it this permanent condition while physical illness comes and goes. In reality, we all slip in and out of mental illness (depression, anxiety) all the time, and I slip in and out of unipolar mania quite a bit but unfortunately much, much less now that I am older. I am actually making prudent financial decisions now instead of my previous "drinks for everyone... on me" personality. Sigh.

Bipolar disorder, autism, and ADHD all involve high glutamate levels which is what drives the hyperactivity, but dopamine levels vary with each condition. Bipolar is high dopamine, Autism is normal dopamine, and ADHD is low dopamine.

I don't think it is possible for ESTPs to have ADD/ADHD because we are so dopamine driven. As you move up the education spectrum, there are fewer Ss and more Ns, and with rare exception, most of the Ns would put me to sleep. If I were nodding off and some N professor questioned me about having ADD today, I would respond, "I don't have ADD. You are just boring." I wonder how many ESTPs with "ADD" are just bored.

The drugs for ADD raise dopamine, and when you raise dopamine in anyone, you get more focus and test scores go up. However you can also induce mania with these dopamine raising ADD drugs, and I don't think most doctors or health professionals get that.

The combination of dysgraphia and bipolar intrigues me. I have seen dysgraphia with autism a lot, but most bipolars I know write fine. Maenad, what is going with you and the dysgraphia? Does it hurt to write?

[maenad]

Maenad, I have been working on MBTI and mental illness (God I hate that term) for years. Bipolar disorder does explain a lot of ESTP behaviors. The manic phase has us nailed: pleasure seeking, risk taking, extremely sensitive, fast talking, lacking depth, engaging in hypersexual behavior, and spending freely without saving any money. The depressed phase, as I am guessing you know, is not really feeling badly. It is a total lack of any feeling what so ever. True depressed bipolars would cut themselves just to feel something or even try to kill themselves. In the depressed phase, it is appropriate to call bipolars sociopathic because in this phase, they feel nothing for themselves or anyone else.

I personally have experienced mania many times, and it is associated with a surge in dopamine, and I love how I feel with that dopamine surge. I feel so alive, but I have never been in the depressed bipolar phase, the total lack of feeling. I have felt badly sure, but not suicidal. I have never even for one second felt like killing myself.

The term then for feeling one part of the bipolar spectrum is unipolar. And the thing I hate about "mental illness" is people consider it this permanent condition while physical illness comes and goes. In reality, we all slip in and out of mental illness (depression, anxiety) all the time, and I slip in and out of unipolar mania quite a bit but unfortunately much, much less now that I am older. I am actually making prudent financial decisions now instead of my previous "drinks for everyone... on me" personality. Sigh.

Bipolar disorder, autism, and ADHD all involve high glutamate levels which is what drives the hyperactivity, but dopamine levels vary with each condition. Bipolar is high dopamine, Autism is normal dopamine, and ADHD is low dopamine.

I don't think it is possible for ESTPs to have ADD/ADHD because we are so dopamine driven. As you move up the education spectrum, there are fewer Ss and more Ns, and with rare exception, most of the Ns would put me to sleep. If I were nodding off and some N professor questioned me about having ADD today, I would respond, "I don't have ADD. You are just boring." I wonder how many ESTPs with "ADD" are just bored.

The drugs for ADD raise dopamine, and when you raise dopamine in anyone, you get more focus and test scores go up. However you can also induce mania with these dopamine raising ADD drugs, and I don't think most doctors or health professionals get that.

The combination of dysgraphia and bipolar intrigues me. I have seen dysgraphia with autism a lot, but most bipolars I know write fine. Maenad, what is going with you and the dysgraphia? Does it hurt to write?

Sorry to hear your bipolar also, it's a real bitch most of the time. Yes i know what it is like to be suicidal and feel hollow. I have beeen several depressed for 5-6 years now. I almost got out of depression 2 years ago but fell in love with an actual sociopath who tormented which mad me go deeper into depression.

i know what you mean with the medication, the doctor(my psych) thinks its a bad idea to give me adderal(stimulant) because he thinks it will put me into mania. But haha on your response to your teacher, I used to find mine ridiculously boring and i would sit there and joke around and thats why the other students liked me(hint our charm) but it would agitate them to no end.

[elvis2010]

Sorry to hear your bipolar also, it's a real bitch most of the time.

I don't have the depressive part of bipolar, and on occasion, I do have the mania, but I think all ESTPs though have some degree of mania. I actually learned about bipolar because there was this bipolar woman who just fascinated me. I have noticed people who are bipolar, ADD, OCD are more attractive than the general population in part I think because they have to work out so much to mentally be close to normal.

When this female ISFJ was manic she was so much fun. She was so intelligent, so alive, so charismatic, so witty that she literally mesmerized men, but that was only part of the time. Often she was depressed (for every day bipolars are manic, they are depressed twice as much), she would emotionally drain everyone around her. It's a good thing that she was J because the rules were all that kept her from doing all the evil she could when depressed.

[themartyparade]

lalalalala

What's dopamine? I could google, but I'm too lazy.

You say it's almost impossible for ESTPs to have ADHD.

I fit all the criteria for ADHD (hyperactivity, impulsiveness, short attention-span) but the thing that makes me doubt whether or not it's really a mental condition for me is that ADHD is seen as something the individual cannot control. They have no control over their impulses or whatever whereas I sometimes had no control at all, more often than not, I knew exactly what I was doing and what would happen. In fact, most times I even liked the consequences 'cause they were "fun" as well. (eg, doing something wrong 'cause it was fun and then getting yelled at by the teacher was even more fun). Often, the immediate satisfaction of doing what I wanted rather than what I should was much more stimulating than waiting for something long-term.

I knew some things were wrong and would get me in trouble but the pros weighed up the cons, thus it was something I wanted to do. I just think the majority of pros in my life were/are cons for others but I'm not sure.

[elvis2010]

Dopamine is the ultimate pleasure chemical, the precursor to the adrenaline high. Everything good and evil you do that causes pleasure raises dopamine (sex, drugs, rock and roll, some foods, smoking, gambling, hanging out with friends, laughing, pranks). If you are engaged in an activity that does not raise dopamine,that activity likely will not be addictive.

I fit all the criteria for ADHD (hyperactivity, impulsiveness, short attention-span)

Those same criteria apply to mania. Google ADHD versus mania or ADHD versus bipolar when you aren't so lazy:)

but the thing that makes me doubt whether or not it's really a mental condition for me is that ADHD is seen as something the individual cannot control. They have no control over their impulses or whatever whereas I sometimes had no control at all, more often than not, I knew exactly what I was doing and what would happen. In fact, most times I even liked the consequences 'cause they were "fun" as well. (eg, doing something wrong 'cause it was fun and then getting yelled at by the teacher was even more fun).

Dopamine also had to do with focus, concentration, and fun. I also don't think Ns/ADHDers can anticipate like this either. That is not an ADHD paragraph.

The reason that it is important to distinguish between these two conditions is the drugs that work for ADHD raise dopamine and the ones that work for bipolar lower dopamine though I haven't meant many doctors who know this.

Conceivably, someone with mania who takes ADD meds could burn though all their dopamine and get not just depressed but suicidal. If that hasn't been a problem for you, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[themartyparade]

Dopamine is the ultimate pleasure chemical, the precursor to the adrenaline high. Everything good and evil you do that causes pleasure raises dopamine (sex, drugs, rock and roll, some foods, smoking, gambling, hanging out with friends, laughing, pranks). If you are engaged in an activity that does not raise dopamine,that activity likely will not be addictive.



Those same criteria apply to mania. Google ADHD versus mania or ADHD versus bipolar when you aren't so lazy:)



Dopamine also had to do with focus, concentration, and fun. I also don't think Ns/ADHDers can anticipate like this either. That is not an ADHD paragraph.

The reason that it is important to distinguish between these two conditions is the drugs that work for ADHD raise dopamine and the ones that work for bipolar lower dopamine though I haven't meant many doctors who know this.

Conceivably, someone with mania who takes ADD meds could burn though all their dopamine and get not just depressed but suicidal. If that hasn't been a problem for you, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Thanks!

I'm not on meds anymore. They were great in the beginning but realizing that I need higher doses to keep the same level of focus and energy as before was quite the turn-off.

But do anti-depressants raise dopamine as well? or are they different?

[elvis2010]

I'm not on meds anymore. They were great in the beginning but realizing that I need higher doses to keep the same level of focus and energy as before was quite the turn-off.

Again, that does not sound like ADD or ADHD.

But do anti-depressants raise dopamine as well? or are they different?

Most of the newer and more popular antidepressants don't raise dopamine much if at all. The older ones did. The exception to the rule is Wellbutrin, which is new and still popular. Generic name is Bupropion.

The newer ones aren't so much better as safer. An overdose on the old ones could cause your heart to stop, and that is not much of a problem with most of the newer ones.

[elvis2010]

Double post

[themartyparade]

Again, that does not sound like ADD or ADHD.

How would a person with ADHD react to medication like Ritalin?

I'd take them in a morning, get a kick and a burst of energy which would keep me motivated and focused. The effect would wear of in the evening (as it should) and after a period of time, it'd have no effect on me at all.

[Intricate Mystic]

Sorry to hear your bipolar also, it's a real bitch most of the time. Yes i know what it is like to be suicidal and feel hollow. I have beeen several depressed for 5-6 years now. I almost got out of depression 2 years ago but fell in love with an actual sociopath who tormented which mad me go deeper into depression.

I'm surprised that an ESTP would fall for a sociopath. It happens to INFJs sometimes because sociopaths are fascinating and we can be naive. I fell for one and thought I could figure them out but it was a tremendous amount of work and ultimately was harmful for me. Sorry that happened to you.