[elvis2010]

I've just been to my mental health worker and I've apparently got lots of anxiety problems actually at the root of it all. I've also been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome but part of me believes that it is just some sort of insult (as it has always been an insult that I was insulted with plenty of times because of my creativity and way of making sense of the world).

Okay, now I see why you wanted to turn off your Se. Asperger's are hypersensing Ss because they make too much dopamine AND glutamate. Ns are similar, but their hypersensing is due to low dopamine and high glutamate.

The high dopamine leads to a weird form of hedonism and pleasure. Asperger's people get pleasure from things others don't understand and laugh in ways that to others may seem inappropriate. The high glutamate leads you to do what is called stimming behavior to calm down (rocking, snapping your fingers, ETC) Do you do that?

Apparently many Aspergers people get misdiagnosed with manic depression and the symptoms can be similar, although I'd much rather be a manic depressive rather than have Aspergers.

Mania? Yes. That is similar to Asperger's. Manic depression isn't I feel badly. It is that I feel nothing. Mainc depressants/bipolars can cut themselves in the depressed phase and literally feel no pain. And no, you don't want to have manic depression, the listed suicide rate is 24%, but IMO it really is as high as 90%.

I'm getting help with Aspergers "just in case I have it", although I'll never be 100% convinced that I really do have it.

Someone with Asperger's has hypersensing S and would be looking to "shut down" a hyperactive sensing system, so the diagnosis fits how you were trying to treat yourself.

If I do have it, I'm sure I am capable of "curing" Aspergers because I think it's just as much a neurological structure in the brain as any set of information can cause. The label has a negative effect.

Well, I don't know about a cure, but there are ways to lower dopamine and glutamate via medications, diet, and activities.

I have always had plenty of empathy and theory-of-mind, and it's really insulting to have a label that says you don't have these when you remember having them.

Yeah, I don't buy that at all. People with Asperger's may show empathy in a different way, but I don't think for one second that they don't care. Most Asperger's people I know are T, and they care a lot. They may show it or care in an unconventional way.

I was brought up by very pessimistic people who painted an ugly picture of the world, where anything goes, and the logic I came up with early on is that if the world were to kill me, then I deserve it because I wouldn't want to live in such a hellhole; this idea will remain true, but it is only by seeing the world through my own eyes that my negative attitude can be reversed.

Whoa! That is classic ESTP pessimism, a lack of faith, and a possibly a big time oxytocin deficiency.

I do believe I have resorted to using Te and Si in my attempt to "cure" myself.

No, I don't think so. I think understanding the importance of the N and F are going to do more to make you feel better. I think you need to be easier on yourself though. Anyone who has the brain chemistry you do would behave as you do.

I think unfortunately having high intelligence may hinder me and may be the cause of all this stuff including the "Aspergers" in the first place.

I understand, but I think Ts of higher intelligence often push their F to the side with horrible effects. In other words, when your T is working so well, why bother with the F? But we all need to.

Ask yourself how you feel. I think Ts have to learn feelings. I have to ask myself several times a day how I feel and put great importance on it.

To develop your N, make a list of what could happen in your future and assess the odds of each possibility and see what comes true and what doesn't. Ask others about their percentages too. The most amzing thing I have noticed is that what people are worried about and what they should fear are so different it blows me away.

For example, people are worried some stranger is going to murder them. Most know that it is usually someone they know that is more likely to kill them, but the person most likely to murder you is you. Suicide rates are double the rates of murder in the U.S. and probably higher elsewhere. So your Se and Ti can help with calming the doom and gloom N we ESTPs sometimes feel.

[Carmine Ermine]

The high dopamine leads to a weird form of hedonism and pleasure. Asperger's people get pleasure from things others don't understand and laugh in ways that to others may seem inappropriate. The high glutamate leads you to do what is called stimming behavior to calm down (rocking, snapping your fingers, ETC) Do you do that?

Rocking has been observed more when I was younger and I notice it sometimes.

Mania? Yes. That is similar to Asperger's. Manic depression isn't I feel badly. It is that I feel nothing. Manic depressants/bipolars can cut themselves in the depressed phase and literally feel no pain. And no, you don't want to have manic depression, the listed suicide rate is 24%, but IMO it really is as high as 90%.

OK. I do still feel pain so I can rule that out. I do understand the suicidal tendencies, but I love my Ti to bits for showing how it's ridiculous, with such thoughts as: "If I so much as consider suicide, then I am clearly ready do anything and have unlimited courage. So I'd much rather do some kind of extreme sports like base jumping or climb K2 or something. Problem solved". I think unfortunately ESFPs' suicide rate is probably much higher than ESTPs because they don't have Ti to make such logical leaps. I know someone who I consider a "typical" ESFP and he slashed his arm at some point in his life, when things got too much for him. Also my ESFP sister has threatened it at some times, and she definitely doesn't have Aspergers.

Someone with Asperger's has hypersensing S and would be looking to "shut down" a hyperactive sensing system, so the diagnosis fits how you were trying to treat yourself.

I don't know about a cure, but there are ways to lower dopamine and glutamate via medications, diet, and activities.

People with Asperger's may show empathy in a different way, but I don't think for one second that they don't care. Most Asperger's people I know are T, and they care a lot. They may show it or care in an unconventional way.

Possibly it's from being able to "mind read" too much. I often get vibes from some types of people like they think I'm weird, before they even have a chance to know anything. Maybe it's that I'm a stranger to them and they're a bit stand-offish at first and "just being polite". But I can see right through it and I think they're being rude from the start. Because of that, I feel like either treating them with less respect in return, or contrive some sort of "fake politeness" myself, but that feels like "playing along with their game". Maybe this is essentially what Aspergers' people do, which comes across like they find it hard to show respect.

Do you think it's just extreme Se (or, you could say, dopamine and glutamate) that characterises autism, or can Si have the same effect? Or is it more like a combination of Se+Si? Also, would you say all Aspergers people are ESTPs specifically, or other types, or are you more inclined to say they're exempt from MBTI?

Whoa! That is classic ESTP pessimism, a lack of faith, and a possibly a big time oxytocin deficiency.

I think understanding the importance of the N and F are going to do more to make you feel better. I think you need to be easier on yourself though. Anyone who has the brain chemistry you do would behave as you do.

I think Ts of higher intelligence often push their F to the side with horrible effects. In other words, when your T is working so well, why bother with the F? But we all need to.

Yeah, Ti is amazing and feels like it can solve anything. My feeling functions usually submit to its authority. But the mindfulness book did say that it's simply a tool and that an emotional problem cannot be "solved". Although, knowing the answer is to accept and observe the negative feelings makes Ti feel like it has indeed "solved" it - even if the actual process of watching the negativity pass by like a cloud and go away doesn't involve any thinking functions.

Ask yourself how you feel. I think Ts have to learn feelings. I have to ask myself several times a day how I feel and put great importance on it.

My Fe tells me that "having to learn feelings" is to be looked upon with contempt. Most feelers probably do look upon it with contempt because they don't use their Ti to say "hey, hold on! why should learning more about how to develop feelings be any different from, say, learning about writing or speaking techniques?" Fe instead simply says it's contemptible to have to learn it, which inadvertently and ironically discourages itself from developing. I guess Fe judges itself as only being worthy of development by itself, i.e. by feeling itself rather than using a thinking function to help it along.

To develop your N, make a list of what could happen in your future and assess the odds of each possibility and see what comes true and what doesn't. Ask others about their percentages too. The most amzing thing I have noticed is that what people are worried about and what they should fear are so different it blows me away.

For example, people are worried some stranger is going to murder them. Most know that it is usually someone they know that is more likely to kill them, but the person most likely to murder you is you. Suicide rates are double the rates of murder in the U.S. and probably higher elsewhere. So your Se and Ti can help with calming the doom and gloom N we ESTPs sometimes feel.

In my case, I think the "doom and gloom N" is quite well-developed and at the root of a lot of the anxieties. Then again, Ti looks at that and says "aha, so you're scared of a tiny little chance of random death but you're still on the verge of taking up extreme sports?" the thing is finding out where Ti is right and where it's wrong. I've got an idea: Ti should work on the causes but not the effects, and Se should work on the effects but not the causes (in fact "using Se to work the causes" probably counts as Si). F and N should also be used as tools: F to help with human interactions and N to oversee the big picture of what it's all about and help decide what the objectives are.

The thing is, fear of failing the "primary objective" could even be what causes all the negativity in the world. Looking at all the possibilities, including ones where you could randomly be killed, makes it clear that the only way to eliminate fear of failing the "primary objective" of life is to make the "primary objective" be to observe the present moment. This is another piece that shows how mindfulness works :)

[itsme45]

Yeah I have an in-joke with myself - whenever I do something clumsy I say to myself "clumsy!" and whenever I do something un-clumsy I say "clumsy!" sarcastically.

Haaha, btw I'm not English but I noticed people on this forum equate "clumsy" with tripping/running into objects/etc, essentially space sensing issues. I'm not clumsy in that sense whatsoever, but only in some other things, mostly in certain new tasks.

It's strange that people think I'm mathematical, when in fact I only like maths in that it's a tool that is essentially the fundamental laws of nature. What I liked most about maths is that its rules are eternal and must apply in every possible circumstance, so it gives a good idea of what's realistic or not. I tried really hard to learn it because of that, and practiced lots, and ended up being very good at it, although I still find it intrinsically very difficult.

Ah, I have a totally mathematical brain myself. A fun example of that: I got accused a few days ago (email conversation with someone about sports) that I read/process sentences as if they were to conform to mathematical rules. Whoa I dunno what about my responses made the person guess this. -.- I'm not sure about my native language, which is which the conversation took place in, but in English I know I'm like that. But, my approach to my native language definitely was not like that until I turned 18 (when a change started to happen over the following 1-2 years). Afterward, possibly....

Btw I never needed to practice to know mathematics and don't find it intrinsically difficult, it is more like intuitive intrinsically, so maybe my brain is more extreme than yours. :D I once even started to major in maths at university (but then dropped it quickly due to a few things, mostly because I really didn't see myself as being a mathematician for the rest of my life).

Anyway, after this expert decided after just 2 meetings that I have Aspergers, I denied it, but then a report came in that, in the past year, many girls were "concerned about me".

People can be asses like that...... can you figure out why they'd have this dislike approach towards you?

A list of similar things had been drawn up over the past 14 months, and included "inappropriate touching" and "asking for an extra present at the Christmas Party" (which is the sort of thing I would do but in fact I didn't go to the Christmas party).

How could they claim you were at a party if you were not? Touching, um, I'm not going to ask about that :P

Does anyone else almost literally feel other peoples' pain when they see someone get hurt?

I don't. I guess I'm glad I don't. I do have a very special kind of synesthesia though. I've only talked to one person who has the same kind! =) (She's INTJ btw)

I think I have excellent vision (I've measured it as 12:20 vision), excellent hearing (I believe I'm an auditory-kinaesthetic person), probably a little more sensitive kinaesthesia (but definitely not so much that a little touch is painful, like some have it), and possibly slightly better taste and smell... actually maybe it just appears that way because I'm a sensual person. Then I also have really excellent spacial awareness (I found out from playing the awesome game series of "Descent", which most people give up on because it requires excellent spacial awareness), but I'm perhaps just a little down on the clumsiness aspect.

Meh I envy you, I have glasses though I often get by without wearing them. :D I'm very kinesthetic and spatial though... auditory too, I guess. Dunno about that game, I don't see how it requires such excellent spatial awareness that others can't play it but maybe I evaluate it this way only because I'm pretty spatial too.

I'm not oversensitive to sensory stuff in general though. My weird sensory stuff is just the following, no idea if it can be related to aspergers :P -

1) I sometimes plain fail to put a picture of details together; a good example of that would be colour sensing tests. My colour sensing is just fine in general, I can perceive fine differences well but when I'm tested in a way where you need to read out number digits from a lot of coloured spots, I just plain fail at first sight. I have to process each spot on its own and then methodically and consciously put it together to figure out what the number digit is. Slow process....... takes a minute instead of a second. But it works.

2) Ah and note I said my colour sensing is good, I pass tests just fine without errors (except those number/spot ones take a long time), with the ability for pretty fine distinctions, yet I've been seen mixing up some light colours. Hey the reason why I didn't try to major in biology was that I was afraid of f*cking up things in this fashion when viewing things under the microscope or something. It was probably an irrealistic worry though. -.-

3) Probably related to first one, but I sometimes fail to identify objects verbally or otherwise. I just see what the object is like, I can explore any detail if needed, but can't really guess at what it may be. Of course these are objects that I've yet to see much before, but other people seem to be able to guess at what they are. Example: generic drawing for a sign to tell you something. Or any physical object that I've not seen much before.

4) Still probably related, but when a new task can be done in one of two ways: a) perceive the details of the object and put them together and thus handle the object for the task b) just grab the object and pray you somehow get to handle it right to achieve task without knowing how the details match up for the task... then I will go for "b)". I manage to handle the task only this way. I'm not sure if other people ever use "a)" though but they seem to. :S

Though, this only applies to new-ish tasks, because after performing the task a few times I do often get a better conscious sense of the object details themselves and can see how they fit together for the task to be done.

5) Bet this is still related - When I'm shown how to do a new task where a lot of motion is involved, then I cannot imitate it by simply watching. The motion is just too "fast" for me to process the details inside it. I have to be shown step by step, I will get the task right then effortlessly, though. This step by step must include all the details without motion. Either I'm shown this way, or I'll just somehow figure it out over a longer time on my own (no idea how, just "eureka" moment at the end and then I know how to do it).

6) This may just be remnants of my old ADHD-ish thing, I noticed my awareness can escape into staring into nothingness for a second here or there when I'm focusing on doing something - usually physical tasks but can be mental tasks too. Or maybe this is perfectly normal for everyone? Anyway, I can blunder in a physical task due to that but this blunder is not often, because I'm usually tuned in most of the time enough. Btw, when the focus escapes like this, I don't think of anything so it is not function-related. Overall I do have a great and strong focus though that I can hold for as long as I want to.

Does any of this qualify me for aspergers? :D

Beyond these clumsy-ish things, I'm not clumsy in anything else. I have very good spatial sensing/orientation, movement and balance control, fine motor control (I can be slow at learning stuff requiring this at first but then I get very quick and good at it), whatever.

I sometimes have kind of a stiff or awkward posture (which I blame on stress, not Aspergers)

Hm, I only get stiff if I'm too self-conscious about what people may think about me. My posture is fine otherwise.

when I lose balance, I amaze myself at how quickly, automatically and effectively my body can regain it.

Heh well I love challenging my balance in random tasks wherever I can. :) How about balancing around on a fast-moving vehicle, running fast on steep downhills on hard uneven terrain (full of stones etc), walking over a narrow "bridge" over an abyss or on edge of cliff near the abyss etc......

I know what you mean - I also get "runaway empathy" sometimes and then I might see that the person isn't even as bothered as I am, so it feels like there's no need to feel so sad for them.

It is not like that for me. I never get "runaway empathy" by default. I was just going through some period where I did get that and I just didn't like the feeling. I didn't consider if the person was sad or not, I just simply felt no point to this. (Two reasons: 1) I may not know how they actually feel or if they even need something and I prefer not to guess 2) I don't think I even have any responsibility or anything to do with this random person)

The diagnosis was just 3 vague things:

1st: sensory "differences" - as you now know, I do have sensory "differences" :P

2nd: "restrictive/repetitive interests" - these change, but at the moment, mine are Women and MBTI. I find myself thinking about MBTI more than I even want to nowadays, maybe because I'm really interested in "characters" (really MBTI is about 16 stereotypical characters which is what's so appealing about it). I think my problems with women are from being in "dark ISTJ" mode so much that I didn't bother to get any experience in the field, and need lots of practice, which is probably why all these "concerns" are happening because I'm making mistakes, and when I really want to practice something I often have a series of big fails first

I think you try to explain everything too much with MBTI. It's not meant for that and will not work for that. Maybe you'll realize that later. Anyway, that obsession doesn't need to mean asperger for you. :P

How often do your interests change?

3rd: social difficulties - from being stressed and having a tense posture, also fearing that other people might have something against me

Oh. Well I don't think they have anything against me. I just much prefer it when I can be in the midst of action when I'm with a group. If there is no chance for that that's when I get pessimistic and tense. I suppose that's not aspergers. -.-

Yeah I know, it was just based on the idea that ESTPs are prone to dropping out of academia because they think it's too theoretical. I guess the more intelligent ones among us can see the practical side of getting more qualifications. Mine is in Chemical Engineering, which is supposedly not a subject ESTPs are fond of because it's theoretical, but I can easily see the practical side of it. It seems so short-sighted to think of it as all abstract theory and quit. And anyway, Chemical Engineers are in demand and they get paid a lot, so that's motivation enough. I hope to be able to travel more without thinking I'm going to run out of money.

Oh, chemical engineering is something Se+Ti could be highly fit for, but it may be too boring doing the same job for too long. ;P But yes qualifications are good to have.

Compared to Si, Se is happier because Si isn't the now. What's so addictively attractive about Si is because you can have experienced better times before and think about them, and it gives the illusion of even more happiness than what you can find in the present. But Dale Carnegie said "happiness is wanting what you get", and you technically don't have the past, you only have the present.

I see. I hate thinking about the past, doesn't matter if good or bad experiences. Too draining. You are right we don't have the past :P

About combining Ti+Fe... I've found combinations of opposite functions give even more satisfaction than the individual functions, but somehow it feels milder. It's having appropriate levels of empathy with Fe and understanding how people could really think and feel with Ti. High Fe by itself can be like "HEYYEYAAEYAAAEYAEYAA" (look that up on youtube, it's hilarious) and high Ti by itself can be weaving all sorts of webs of logic to try to explain everything but very emotionlessly. So combining them generates a sort of deep empathetic understanding.

I see, though the first part of your explanation was highly subjective. The second part I understood =) Not sure I'd want to use my logic to explain empathy and other feelings though..... I think I'd be no good at that. I'm better off just using my instincts for that.

Possibly it's from being able to "mind read" too much. I often get vibes from some types of people like they think I'm weird, before they even have a chance to know anything. Maybe it's that I'm a stranger to them and they're a bit stand-offish at first and "just being polite". But I can see right through it and I think they're being rude from the start. Because of that, I feel like either treating them with less respect in return, or contrive some sort of "fake politeness" myself, but that feels like "playing along with their game". Maybe this is essentially what Aspergers' people do, which comes across like they find it hard to show respect.

I don't really do that :O

My Fe tells me that "having to learn feelings" is to be looked upon with contempt. Most feelers probably do look upon it with contempt because they don't use their Ti to say "hey, hold on! why should learning more about how to develop feelings be any different from, say, learning about writing or speaking techniques?" Fe instead simply says it's contemptible to have to learn it, which inadvertently and ironically discourages itself from developing. I guess Fe judges itself as only being worthy of development by itself, i.e. by feeling itself rather than using a thinking function to help it along.

Fe for me is just this mindset of caring about other people in a situation, tuning into their needs and into the atmosphere of the group and communicating emotions (mostly positive ones) to them. But when I do that I don't usually feel any strong deep emotion. Internally it's only something superficial because I'm focused on the other people instead of myself. I feel deep only if I'm on my own or perhaps in an one-to-one people situation. (But not often. :S Even though I like strong emotions, heh.) So dunno about this. I don't think you can or should force yourself to feel emotions anyway.

The thing is, fear of failing the "primary objective" could even be what causes all the negativity in the world. Looking at all the possibilities, including ones where you could randomly be killed, makes it clear that the only way to eliminate fear of failing the "primary objective" of life is to make the "primary objective" be to observe the present moment. This is another piece that shows how mindfulness works :)

Yeah.

Wondered when someone would state the obvious. It's called your domainant function for a reason, therefore no other function can equal it. At best Se and Ne domainant types generally have to make a conscious attempt to develop a filter using Ti or Fi to prevent the dominant from running amuck.

That filter, would it prevent the Se/Ne individual from being an excessive go-getter? In that case I can relate, as a kid I did not have as much filter and there were issues sometimes about that :P. I was not a crazy active kid (except for the first couple of years of my life being ADHD-ish but that went away), but when I wanted something I didn't try to put it through any filter. Now, somewhat older, I think I actually have too much filter though. So these things can change a LOT.

Okay, now I see why you wanted to turn off your Se. Asperger's are hypersensing Ss because they make too much dopamine AND glutamate. Ns are similar, but their hypersensing is due to low dopamine and high glutamate.

The high dopamine leads to a weird form of hedonism and pleasure. Asperger's people get pleasure from things others don't understand and laugh in ways that to others may seem inappropriate. The high glutamate leads you to do what is called stimming behavior to calm down (rocking, snapping your fingers, ETC) Do you do that?

Oh you seem to know a lot about this topic. I'm not sure if I'm hypersensing..... can you check the above stuff about my sensory issues?

I've never done stimming behaviour.

Also what kind of activities lower glutamate or dopamin?

Whoa! That is classic ESTP pessimism, a lack of faith, and a possibly a big time oxytocin deficiency.

How is it classic for ESTP's? I don't have this.

I understand, but I think Ts of higher intelligence often push their F to the side with horrible effects. In other words, when your T is working so well, why bother with the F? But we all need to.

Hm, I don't want to push F (Fe mainly) too much to the side and it's often considered when I deal with people, depending on situation. Then in others, not so much..... In general, I think T on its own does not fit for many situations.

Ask yourself how you feel. I think Ts have to learn feelings. I have to ask myself several times a day how I feel and put great importance on it.

Ugh, that's not going to make me "learn feelings". I know my emotional states perfectly well, thank-you. However it's usually just this calm state. I ask myself now, I answer, "ok I'm sitting here, tuned into answering this stuff, I'm nicely part of this activity, this is me right now, I don't feel anything beyond that". That is, calm, but in an interested state. No strong emotions. If I just verbalize these things to myself, how is that going to teach me to feel more? :D

I'm really interested in what you meant there; Thanks.

[Functianalyst]

Wondered when someone would state the obvious. It's called your domainant function for a reason, therefore no other function can equal it. At best Se and Ne domainant types generally have to make a conscious attempt to develop a filter using Ti or Fi to prevent the dominant from running amuck.

That filter, would it prevent the Se/Ne individual from being an excessive go-getter? In that case I can relate, as a kid I did not have as much filter and there were issues sometimes about that :P. I was not a crazy active kid (except for the first couple of years of my life being ADHD-ish but that went away), but when I wanted something I didn't try to put it through any filter. Now, somewhat older, I think I actually have too much filter though. So these things can change a LOT.

Don’t confuse the use of Ti with Se. Dominant Se, and Ne to some extent, are the masters of observing how they come across to others. The example you give does not necessarily necessitate a filtering by Ti or Fi. ESTP types “tone-it-down” if the Se believe they are overdoing it. If you read the descriptions here, you will see where confirmed ESTPs state, “Sometimes I have to tone it down a little bit—people may read me the wrong way”.

But in response to your question, your Ti does nothing without the permission of Se, the same way my Se has no say unless my Ti gives it permission.

[itsme45]

Don’t confuse the use of Ti with Se. Dominant Se, and Ne to some extent, are the masters of observing how they come across to others. The example you give does not necessarily necessitate a filtering by Ti or Fi. ESTP types “tone-it-down” if the Se believe they are overdoing it. If you read the descriptions here, you will see where confirmed ESTPs state, “Sometimes I have to tone it down a little bit—people may read me the wrong way”.

But in response to your question, your Ti does nothing without the permission of Se, the same way my Se has no say unless my Ti gives it permission.

Yeah I think a lot about how my stuff may come across.

But ok, then what did you mean by Ti/Fi filter? You need to elaborate on it because this statement can be interpreted in too many ways: "At best Se and Ne domainant types generally have to make a conscious attempt to develop a filter using Ti or Fi to prevent the dominant from running amuck."

Also, do you have some good examples of how your Se has no say until given permission by your Ti?

[Carmine Ermine]

Ah, I have a totally mathematical brain myself. A fun example of that: I got accused a few days ago (email conversation with someone about sports) that I read/process sentences as if they were to conform to mathematical rules. Whoa I dunno what about my responses made the person guess this. -.- I'm not sure about my native language, which is which the conversation took place in, but in English I know I'm like that. But, my approach to my native language definitely was not like that until I turned 18 (when a change started to happen over the following 1-2 years). Afterward, possibly....

Btw I never needed to practice to know mathematics and don't find it intrinsically difficult, it is more like intuitive intrinsically, so maybe my brain is more extreme than yours. :D I once even started to major in maths at university (but then dropped it quickly due to a few things, mostly because I really didn't see myself as being a mathematician for the rest of my life).

Me neither, I've had conversations with people doing PhDs in maths and I don't think I could ever take it to that level. I think having a physical analogy makes the calculations easier because I can imagine the situation and then my intuition can come up with what the solution should look like.

People can be asses like that...... can you figure out why they'd have this dislike approach towards you?

How could they claim you were at a party if you were not? Touching, um, I'm not going to ask about that :P

Well, I did only touch her hand and try to show her something. The thing is, it puts quite a bit of stress on a man when they think the reason why they haven't got anywhere with the opposite sex is because they haven't tried hard enough, and then a girl is next to them resting her legs up in plain sight like she's tempting me. Maybe I have a sensory difference in a way too that makes me hyper-attracted to feminine beauty and women underestimate how much of an effect they have.

I've always thought that most men appreciate natural feminine beauty the same, but then I guess they would give it the same value as I do (i.e. first prize). Then again, I think if most women knew I put beauty first they probably would feel insecure, in the same way that most men would feel insecure if a woman said she puts dominance first in a man, over kindness, intelligence, creativity etc. But at the same time, I wouldn't be suprised if most women really do prioritise dominance in the same way as I believe most men prioritise beauty as much as I do.

My Ti says that since most other men have had some kind of success, they must have either tried more than I have or have less control over their impulses (they are the only possible explanations that I can accept). So I am trying to gradually reduce restricting impulses until it's an acceptable level and try harder.

Does any of this qualify me for aspergers? :D

I think it simply depends on whether it's causing you a problem. There might be a lot of vague theory on it, but I think the decider that made me get diagnosed was that it was causing me problems from assuming people see the world in the same way as I do, in which case it seemed to me like most people were ignorant and foolish, rather than having different sensory perceptions.

Hm, I only get stiff if I'm too self-conscious about what people may think about me. My posture is fine otherwise.

I think being self-conscious about what other people may think (or feel) about me probably is what makes me stiff.

Heh well I love challenging my balance in random tasks wherever I can. :) How about balancing around on a fast-moving vehicle, running fast on steep downhills on hard uneven terrain (full of stones etc), walking over a narrow "bridge" over an abyss or on edge of cliff near the abyss etc......

I'm quite good at running down rocky mountains like that, and steep hills. Never tried balancing on a fast-moving vehicle lol. Just in case. I take precautions on cliffs like I would lie down if I wanted to look over the edge properly, so no one can push me over, and that narrow bridge over an abyss would be fine if it wasn't windy or on a slippery surface. If it was slippery and windy, then I might try crawling or "slithering" across it. Just common sense :D

I think you try to explain everything too much with MBTI. It's not meant for that and will not work for that. Maybe you'll realize that later. Anyway, that obsession doesn't need to mean asperger for you. :P

I guess so. It feels like it's only a passing "obsession". What got me into it was the idea that it can be used to understand people more. The last person I explained it to compared it to astrology, and said the descriptions could fit anyone, or rather there's some things about all the descriptions that describes a person and some that doesn't.

Also, I've heard that some astrologers can easily guess what star sign someone is just by observing them, similar to how we guess someone's personality type, and they're actually right most of the time. The only explanation of why that would make sense is that most people have read a description of their star sign and unconsciously acted like that, and/or they used it as a template.

I think this effect is quite prominent in people, but it's toned down a lot. I think having the label of Aspergers affects me and makes me more "Aspergic" (as the informal terminology goes). But people say "you'll still be the same person before and after you are diagnosed". That makes sense, unless you take into consideration that a label can have an effect.

I think I was a natural ESTP genetically but had a lot of environmental factors conducive to being a shy nerd. There was once, before I knew anything about MBTI, when my family discussed doom and gloom (their favourite topic), and I felt "morose or even antagonistic in situations not offering the possibility of doing something". Then I read that very thing in a description of ESTP, along with stuff I wasn't confident about, like being a "people person", life of the party, good at being in sales, spontaneous, etc. Although there was one time when someone told me I was "going to be a salesman" because I was persuading him to buy some hazelnut flavoured cappuccino. I had in my mind that if I was pushed too far I would "unleash my true self". Now I realise the mistake was not unleashing my true self sooner.

How often do your interests change?

Probably every few years....

Oh. Well I don't think they have anything against me. I just much prefer it when I can be in the midst of action when I'm with a group. If there is no chance for that that's when I get pessimistic and tense. I suppose that's not aspergers. -.-

Me too, but I must have given up on thinking there was a chance to it so that pessimism and tenseness just built up. I think if I hadn't started looking into personal development then I would have mentally deteriorated faster and faster, so it was lucky I managed to save myself.

I see, though the first part of your explanation was highly subjective. The second part I understood =) Not sure I'd want to use my logic to explain empathy and other feelings though..... I think I'd be no good at that. I'm better off just using my instincts for that.

I think the core principle that Ti uses is that there's a reason why anything happens (however simple or complex, however abstract or physical). TiFe (or FeTi) is more like using logic to try to understand why someone feels the way they do. You put yourself into the other person's shoes more literally, and try to understand really why they feel the way they do (maybe they have a neurological condition or just have heard different information than you, and you have to imagine how their feeling can make sense). Then you can understand both parties in a conflict more easily, and you can understand psychopaths or idiots as well, or even animals if you have it really well developed. You can understand how and why people feel the way they do if they're better or worse off than others. For example the one who's worse off might feel envious and want to bring the "better" people down, and the one who's better off might feel insecure or paranoid that people want to take something from them. So although it's two judging functions, they oppose each other in a way that seems "non-judgmental". But of course, even if you understand how a T-rex feels, that shouldn't stop you from running :)

Now I wonder what TeFi (or FiTe) would be like? I think it would be much more active. From reading the "keys 2 cognition" description of Te and Fi, I think it would be something like: "creating structure, reasoning by evidence and implementing complex plans, while evaluating situations and choosing the direction that you believe is congruent with your personal identity". So it seems like Fi would create the goals and Te would reach them.

Also I think SiNe (or NeSi) has functions that seem so mutually exclusive at first sight. I think it's more impersonal and would be using Ne to think of which situation is the most promising and stable and then shifting the dynamics towards that objective. Whereas SeNi (or NiSe) is much more personal, and is pursuing greater levels of awareness and "transformations" (personal development) while taking action relevant to the moment or current context.

Considering these, I can see how shadow functions can be beneficial. You could say FeTi is about understanding, TeFi is about goals, NeSi is about change, and SeNi is about personal development. Then you can combine all the jugding functions into "a deep understanding of life and clear knowledge of what you want to do in it", and all the perceiving functions into "a willingness to adapt any situation to achieve the best potential outcome, combined with a deep wisdom and readiness to act". Combine them all and you get the ideal person :)

...your Ti does nothing without the permission of Se, the same way my Se has no say unless my Ti gives it permission.

I guess when my Se sees that it's making too many mistakes then it goes to Ti for advice. That's how I work and seems to make perfect sense. I guess for you, if your Ti can't seem to solve something, you'll see if using a bit of Se can help you solve it or at least give you a new perspective.

[Pete The Lich]

Oh I was thinking being hit by cars
you have to use that Se to See those cars! :D

[itsme45]

(...) Combine them all and you get the ideal person :)

Just a few quick comments.

As for mathematics, I think I could take it to that level. I just didn't have the motivation. I'm not theoretical enough for that.

It's okay if you go for beautiful women if you have something to offer to them in return. :P
I don't know about other women, I wouldn't put dominance first, my partner just needs to be dominating as much as I am, not more.

The "aspie" (?) stuff I described: It causes issues to me personally yeah. But generally I can get around them. Especially after realizing tricks that help me with that. Before that, not as much.

Yes of course MBTI is like astrology in terms of the types being generalised to about the same extent. Now, if someone guessed at my star sign, it would not be because of any unconscious change of my behaviour. No, I don't believe in astrology, I think it's most likely the person would not guess my star sign right.

As for your function analysis, I dunno about equating such general things to concrete functions. I could deduce using reasoning similar to yours that SeNi is about goals or about change, or NeSi about understanding, or personal development; etc..... These things are just too general.

Anyway, good luck to finding your true self, whatever that may mean. :)

I guess when my Se sees that it's making too many mistakes then it goes to Ti for advice. That's how I work and seems to make perfect sense. I guess for you, if your Ti can't seem to solve something, you'll see if using a bit of Se can help you solve it or at least give you a new perspective.

Meh I can see myself in both of these things.

[Carmine Ermine]

Oh I was thinking being hit by cars
you have to use that Se to See those cars! :D

Yeah N might assume the road is clear and barge across it.

Meh I can see myself in both of these things.

I see how I was generalising... or how NeSi and SeNi are actually the same. If you take mathematical analogy:
perceptions.jpg
I bet you'll fail to see what that picture is on about, but at least I tried :)

[Flatliner]

I see how I was generalising... or how NeSi and SeNi are actually the same. If you take mathematical analogy:
perceptions.jpg
I bet you'll fail to see what that picture is on about, but at least I tried :)

The picture is a great analogy. I copied it into my reference library of MBTI stuff.