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ESTP-INFP Compatability

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This is a discussion on ESTP-INFP Compatability within the ESTP Forum - The Doers forums, part of the SP's Temperament Forum- The Creators category; Originally Posted by Korvyna Dang! You stab that knife in deep and turn it! I'm kidding. I know I have ...

  1. #21
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Korvyna View Post
    Dang! You stab that knife in deep and turn it! I'm kidding.

    I know I have a cold side at times. For the most part I am compassionate... Hence wanting to go into counseling as a career. The only time I'm not compassionate is when someone is so stubborn and makes a million excuses. Heh, and both the guys I'm thinking of as I type that are NTJs.

    I am a pretty moral and ethical person... I'm probably a bit more cautious of things because of my best friend and my mom. In the past, I have been completely irresponsible with my just out for a good time attitude. However, I haven't been that was since I was 25. Some time after I turned 25 I just started to slow down.

    And most of the time I'm being warm... I'm not just seeming that way. I really am a warm person.

    OrangeAppled obviously does not see what I see in ESTp's.

    ESTp's actually appear cold. Their outgoing nature and social charm, while friendly, is not warm like that an ENFj's or ESFj's. Their humor and flirting still has a cold flavor to it.

    Inside ESTp's are, not just warm, but exceptionally warm people. Compassionate and caring, most definitely, but weak Fe and the defenses put up by Se causes that to not come across to everyone. But since INFp's do not rely on Fi to assess a person's inner state but Ni, that allows us to see the inner ESTp. Something that ESTp's have told me also is that doses of Fe from others, in a socially "safe" environment, will lower their defenses which also brings out their inner warmth. I have personally witnessed this as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled
    When I refer to ESTPs being hedonistic, I do not mean connecting easily with people and being socially charming. That's exactly what I like about ENFJs. I mean, some ESTPs will put pleasure and fun over everything to the point of being completely irresponsible and immoral. I've met far too many who were meathead types, so I feel justified in being suspicious of their intellectual tendencies....although I do know a certain kind that I like quite a bit, but I'd still have concerns for the long term. Pliable morals to me is someone who has little moral backbone and will justify dishonest things because it suits their purpose - I'm just not down with that.

    ENFJs often have nobler ideas and pursuits, and being Ns they tend to be more cerebral than physical. Much more attractive to me. I also love that ENFJs are very warm and sentimental for men...ESTPs can seem warm because they are outgoing, but they aren't as compassionate as I'd like. I never said I was looking for someone more "rational" either....just someone who has more external organization. I am very chaotic on my own (and I revel in it), but adding to that makes for problems (nothing ever gets done). I need someone who can complement my chaos without totally stifling it. ENFJs seem able to plan and organize and accomplish while still having a spontaneous side.
    Yes superficially, ESTp's will seem like meatheads. Your definition of N=cerebral is. . .how to put it nicely. . .WAY off the mark. I mean like WAY off . Yes they are sensors so they will place considerable emphasis on the physical world. But don't forget, ESTp's auxiliary function is Ti. They are thinkers. Not only that, their thinking is lightening quick. This is also something that I discovered only after working closely with an ESTp and also in retrospect about a past boss I had who I realized later was an ESTp.

    Now, intellectual/cerebral in the sense of dreaming up ideas and philosophizing? Yes you are correct that you will not find this so much in the ESTp. ESTp's are doers. They put that impressive Ti to work in a wholly pragmatic way. The Ti is what mediates their social charm (reacting cleverly to people's reactions, instantaneously!) and their impressive oratorial talent. At work, give them a problem to solve and they will use their Ti brilliantly to find out the info they need, to get all their questions answered, all for the purpose of getting things done and reaching goals.

    ESTp's also usually dont want you to KNOW about their Ti, whether it's because they're modest, or because it's one of their secret weapons (or both). So they will put on an act like they're brainless. Don't be fooled. (sorry ESTp's for outing you!)
    scude and Edinburgh thanked this post.

  2. #22
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by Korvyna View Post
    Dang! You stab that knife in deep and turn it! I'm kidding.

    I know I have a cold side at times. For the most part I am compassionate... Hence wanting to go into counseling as a career. The only time I'm not compassionate is when someone is so stubborn and makes a million excuses. Heh, and both the guys I'm thinking of as I type that are NTJs.

    I am a pretty moral and ethical person... I'm probably a bit more cautious of things because of my best friend and my mom. In the past, I have been completely irresponsible with my just out for a good time attitude. However, I haven't been that was since I was 25. Some time after I turned 25 I just started to slow down.

    And most of the time I'm being warm... I'm not just seeming that way. I really am a warm person.
    I didn't mean to imply that ESTPs were immoral and cold-hearted at all. Sorry of it came off that way.
    By "seem" warm, I mean that they seem more emotional than they are because they can come off as friendly and caring. In that sense, they share the personableness I see in ENFJs, and I don't doubt it is genuine. However, they are significantly less emotional, which means they can keep their head on straight in more emotionally heightened situations. That's a good thing.

    Every type has an ugly version, and I'm sorry to say I have seen some ugly ESTPs. I've also known some really cool, smart, kind ones who I like and respect a lot, but not in a romantic way.

    Quote Originally Posted by workaholicsanon View Post
    Socionics typing should not rely on the test--the test can be pretty inaccurate. Did you also read the INFj descriptions? because seriously, a lot of what you said above sounds VERY INFj (even down to the OrangeAppled correction--sorry bout that mistake btw). Maybe you will relate to that description even more. The difference can be somewhat subtle (INFp and INFj are quasi-identicals). Also, if you guys are basing your opinions on socionics.com descriptions, I can see why you aren't a big fan of socionics. Those aren't the best descriptions. Check out www.wikisocion.com. Also descriptions by Filatova and by Stratisyevskaya I've found to be pretty good.
    The other thing you should look at in determining your socionics type is, what do you value in a hypothetical soul mate. Are you more impressed by Se (someone who has presence, argues for you, takes action, and wants you to take action) or Te (someone who works efficiently & neatly and wants you to do the same, and has brilliant ideas and is knowledgeable)? Is it Ti (do you prefer someone who helps you systematize your thinking) or Si (do you get stressed and prefer someone who helps you relax)?

    If you prefer Se Ti in the soul mate -- INFp

    If you prefer Te Si in the soul mate -- INFj.

    ENFj's are great people I agree. Never attracted to them romantically though. Love love love them as friends!

    p.s. duals dont necessarily like each other at first. The extrovert usually wont notice the introvert, and the introvert usually thinks the extrovert is too different (either better or worse). You have to have the opportunity to interact together closely for a while to really recognize each other.
    I have read many, many socionics descriptions (including wikisocion), posted on socionics message boards & gotten feedback, and I have a decent overall grasp of the theory myself. I just don't buy it. In MBTI, Fi Ne resonates strongly with me. In socionics, it is sooooo off the mark. I've had many other people well-versed in socionics type me based on a lot more personal info and interaction with me than you have and most guessed INFp or INTp. A few thought INFj. I don't relate fully to any description because there are always glaring points which contradict who I am, but INFp was the closest. Since this is an MBTI focused board, I prefer to stick to that theory in discussing these matters. It's get very confusing otherwise, because the theories are not compatible.

    I don't prefer Te Si or Se Ti as a "soul mate". I prefer Fe Ni . According to MBTI, ENFJs (or ENTJs) are my match, and that rings true from my experience. Everytime I describe my ideal guy, it screams ENFJ. My best guy friends are ENFJ, and if not for certain obstacles (distance, etc), I'd like to date one of them. Even though we are just friends, there is a romantic tone to our dynamic. I also tend to attract them like flypaper. I know more ENFJ men than population percents should allow.

    I also like INTPs (MBTI), so Ti Ne is a preference also. I'd be very open to Te Ni, but I don't know too many ENTJs IRL and I admit that Te can be a bit abrasive for me at times. I'd also be open to Fe Si, but I don't know too many ESFJ men to really say, and I'm wary of Si caging me also. I notice that I really like Fe in men though.


    Quote Originally Posted by workaholicsanon View Post
    OrangeAppled obviously does not see what I see in ESTp's.

    ESTp's actually appear cold. Their outgoing nature and social charm, while friendly, is not warm like that an ENFj's or ESFj's. Their humor and flirting still has a cold flavor to it.

    Inside ESTp's are, not just warm, but exceptionally warm people. Compassionate and caring, most definitely, but weak Fe and the defenses put up by Se causes that to not come across to everyone. But since INFp's do not rely on Fi to assess a person's inner state but Ni, that allows us to see the inner ESTp. Something that ESTp's have told me also is that doses of Fe from others, in a socially "safe" environment, will lower their defenses which also brings out their inner warmth. I have personally witnessed this as well.
    Exactly. It's a matter of perception. To me, most extroverts seem "warm" because they are expressive. That's what I meant by "seem warm" because ESTPs are more open than myself, an introvert, but I know that does not equal warm emotion. I see them as opposite as you do - warm or friendly on the outside, but cool and collected internally.

    I think we're just nitpicking semantics now though...


    Now, intellectual/cerebral in the sense of dreaming up ideas and philosophizing? Yes you are correct that you will not find this so much in the ESTp. ESTp's are doers.
    That's what I meant, and I think preferring philosophizing over doing shows a tendency to be more "cerebral" because it's more of a strictly mental process, and "doing" involves action. I'm NOT talking about intelligence here, I'm talking about a way of thinking and discussing and looking at things. I doubt don't that ESTPs can be very smart and quick. I find I can talk with SPs in a more abstract manner than many SJs also, which is cool, but it's still not the connection I am really looking for.

    ESTp's also usually dont want you to KNOW about their Ti, whether it's because they're modest, or because it's one of their secret weapons (or both). So they will put on an act like they're brainless. Don't be fooled. (sorry ESTp's for outing you!)
    I am very familiar with the smart SP "playing dumb" game, and that in itself is unattractive to me.

  3. #23
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I didn't mean to imply that ESTPs were immoral and cold-hearted at all. Sorry of it came off that way.
    By "seem" warm, I mean that they seem more emotional than they are because they can come off as friendly and caring. In that sense, they share the personableness I see in ENFJs, and I don't doubt it is genuine. However, they are significantly less emotional, which means they can keep their head on straight in more emotionally heightened situations. That's a good thing.

    Every type has an ugly version, and I'm sorry to say I have seen some ugly ESTPs. I've also known some really cool, smart, kind ones who I like and respect a lot, but not in a romantic way.

    I have read many, many socionics descriptions (including wikisocion), posted on socionics message boards & gotten feedback, and I have a decent overall grasp of the theory myself. I just don't buy it. In MBTI, Fi Ne resonates strongly with me. In socionics, it is sooooo off the mark. I've had many other people well-versed in socionics type me based on a lot more personal info and interaction with me than you have and most guessed INFp or INTp. A few thought INFj. I don't relate fully to any description because there are always glaring points which contradict who I am, but INFp was the closest. Since this is an MBTI focused board, I prefer to stick to that theory in discussing these matters. It's get very confusing otherwise, because the theories are not compatible.

    I don't prefer Te Si or Se Ti as a "soul mate". I prefer Fe Ni . According to MBTI, ENFJs (or ENTJs) are my match, and that rings true from my experience. Everytime I describe my ideal guy, it screams ENFJ. My best guy friends are ENFJ, and if not for certain obstacles (distance, etc), I'd like to date one of them. Even though we are just friends, there is a romantic tone to our dynamic. I also tend to attract them like flypaper. I know more ENFJ men than population percents should allow.

    I also like INTPs (MBTI), so Ti Ne is a preference also. I'd be very open to Te Ni, but I don't know too many ENTJs IRL and I admit that Te can be a bit abrasive for me at times. I'd also be open to Fe Si, but I don't know too many ESFJ men to really say, and I'm wary of Si caging me also. I notice that I really like Fe in men though.


    Exactly. It's a matter of perception. To me, most extroverts seem "warm" because they are expressive. That's what I meant by "seem warm" because ESTPs are more open than myself, an introvert, but I know that does not equal warm emotion. I see them as opposite as you do - warm or friendly on the outside, but cool and collected internally.

    I think we're just nitpicking semantics now though...


    That's what I meant, and I think preferring philosophizing over doing shows a tendency to be more "cerebral" because it's more of a strictly mental process, and "doing" involves action. I'm NOT talking about intelligence here, I'm talking about a way of thinking and discussing and looking at things. I doubt don't that ESTPs can be very smart and quick. I find I can talk with SPs in a more abstract manner than many SJs also, which is cool, but it's still not the connection I am really looking for.

    I am very familiar with the smart SP "playing dumb" game, and that in itself is unattractive to me.
    Well I apologize for lecturing, seems like you've already had some experience with socionics. I actually had a lot of fun writing those posts and hopefully they'll be useful to others on this forum. I just love thinking about this stuff!!!

    Unfortunately it seems that some people just are very difficult to type and dont fit neatly into a described sociotype. I know even in real life I have trouble typing some people who i know very well. So i can definitely understand why you find socionics to not work as well for you. The next thing I was going to suggest is what some socionists call the ultimate type test--seeing who your dual is. If you experience duality with ENFj's then maybe you are actually a socionics ISTj (not to add yet ANOTHER type possibility to your list. . .sorry).

  4. #24
    ESTP - The Doers


    Oh man you guys

    I stopped reading 5 posts ago. I hope you didnt actually want ESTP opinions cause I don't think many of us can read what you wrote.
    Gracerina, Leroy and Menia thanked this post.

  5. #25
    INFP - The Idealists

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeBob View Post
    Oh man you guys

    I stopped reading 5 posts ago. I hope you didnt actually want ESTP opinions cause I don't think many of us can read what you wrote.
    I tried to read them.

    But it got too technical and I gave up

  6. #26
    INFJ - The Protectors

    I'm an INFp/INFJ.

    The problem with ESTPs/ESTps is that they are very self-centered people. They do what they want and if you don't keep them entertained or go along with their plans or how they want to do things, then they will eventually ditch you. Remember, they are the leaders. *rolleyes* I've been there and done that with two ESTPs.
    An ex-boyfriend ended our two year relationship, because I was going to Europe for a summer. Lame... And the other ESTP that I then met in Europe was ready to come back with me to the States, but he lost his pants whenever the situation became complicated with cumbersome paperwork and apartment arrangements.

    I wish they had more iNtuition. Their lack of iNtuition seriously messes with their long-term decision making skills.

    So... I will never date an ESTP again.
    snc1878 thanked this post.

  7. #27
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by workaholicsanon View Post
    ESTp's also usually dont want you to KNOW about their Ti, whether it's because they're modest, or because it's one of their secret weapons (or both). So they will put on an act like they're brainless. Don't be fooled. (sorry ESTp's for outing you!)
    ISTPs put on that act, too.

  8. #28
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by TreeBob View Post
    Oh man you guys

    I stopped reading 5 posts ago. I hope you didnt actually want ESTP opinions cause I don't think many of us can read what you wrote.
    Yeah we're making this a secret thread just for us NFs. Our little enclave here on the ESTP board.

  9. #29
    ESTP - The Doers


    Quote Originally Posted by INFpharmacist View Post
    I'm an INFp/INFJ.

    The problem with ESTPs/ESTps is that they are very self-centered people. They do what they want and if you don't keep them entertained or go along with their plans or how they want to do things, then they will eventually ditch you. Remember, they are the leaders. *rolleyes* I've been there and done that with two ESTPs.
    An ex-boyfriend ended our two year relationship, because I was going to Europe for a summer. Lame... And the other ESTP that I then met in Europe was ready to come back with me to the States, but he lost his pants whenever the situation became complicated with cumbersome paperwork and apartment arrangements.

    I wish they had more iNtuition. Their lack of iNtuition seriously messes with their long-term decision making skills.

    So... I will never date an ESTP again.
    You sound like a good catch

  10. #30
    ISFP - The Artists

    I must admit, estps are fun to be with, but not so fun when you want a long term relationship...
    It really felt like gambling, and I've lost it totally too...so I don't think I would like another estp relationship anymore.....
    Gracerina thanked this post.


 
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