[WickedQueen]

Really interesting thread. I've got a buddy who typed as ESTJ and the idea of calling him a "Guardian" just makes me laugh and laugh. He is extremely conscious of rules and social boundaries, and obeys his own habits/routine/program to the Nth degree. But he gets off on flouting *other people's rules*. I've been trying ever since to rationalize his type with his behavior.

It's probably have more to do with enneagram rather than with MBTI type. I made the same thread in Enn.8 subforum and receive interesting responds.

Here's the thread:
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-forum-challenger/110616-breaking-rules.html

[Gnothi Seauton]

I've found that most ESTJs don't break the rules, but when they do, it's pretty revolutionary. When I was working as a work-study at my college in a convenient store, my ESTJ boss found out that Coke was monopolizing the market and taking out other providers. This really set him off, and quit but before doing so, he talked to the higher-ups and told them very impressing stuff and days later everything went back to normal.

Of course, this is only one example but I do think that if you show ESTJs the facts of something wrong going on, they will tirelessly try to mend it even if this may uncomfortably mean breaking some of the rules or reshaping them altogether.

Edit: Oops, I forgot to mention the part when my boss broke the rules. Well, before resigning with the company, he came back to the store and pulled out every single Coke product from the fridges and the back stock and placed them outside. So for a while, we didn't have any drinks to sell, except for some Arizona Teas and energy drinks. It was pretty fun lol

[laikta]

I've found that most ESTJs don't break the rules, but when they do, it's pretty revolutionary. When I was working as a work-study at my college in a convenient store, my ESTJ boss found out that Coke was monopolizing the market and taking out other providers. This really set him off, and quit but before doing so, he talked to the higher-ups and told them very impressing stuff and days later everything went back to normal.

Of course, this is only one example but I do think that if you show ESTJs the facts of something wrong going on, they will tirelessly try to mend it even if this may uncomfortably mean breaking some of the rules or reshaping them altogether.

Edit: Oops, I forgot to mention the part when my boss broke the rules. Well, before resigning with the company, he came back to the store and pulled out every single Coke product from the fridges and the back stock and placed them outside. So for a while, we didn't have any drinks to sell, except for some Arizona Teas and energy drinks. It was pretty fun lol

That sounds cool!! He got guts!

[WickedQueen]

Edit: Oops, I forgot to mention the part when my boss broke the rules. Well, before resigning with the company, he came back to the store and pulled out every single Coke product from the fridges and the back stock and placed them outside. So for a while, we didn't have any drinks to sell, except for some Arizona Teas and energy drinks. It was pretty fun lol

Ah, I see. I was confuse about what is so rebellious in resigning from a job, lol.

On a side note:
Kind of remind me with the story of the Prophet Abraham who destroyed the sculptures of the pagan gods.

Back to topic:
Yeah, I can relate. My friends say I'm an extreme person. I tend to do things in extreme way. It's either I'm extremely obedient or extremely rebellious.

[laikta]

@WickedQueen I think ESTJ can be disasterous if someone flip the table or annoyed us to the limit.

[Feathars]

Wow it seems estj's break rules because they have a high value attached to them. In my perspective, rules are powerless and i feel no expressive connection to them. That being said, I dont like breaking rules because if i break one, i will give it a value, a meaning. breaking a rule only makes it stroner. So by an Estj breaking a rule one is reinforcing the personality's natural inborn traits to love rules? I wonder what other stuff you guys do, very interesting stuff

[WickedQueen]

Wow it seems estj's break rules because they have a high value attached to them. In my perspective, rules are powerless and i feel no expressive connection to them. That being said, I dont like breaking rules because if i break one, i will give it a value, a meaning. breaking a rule only makes it stroner.

You don't make any sense here, tbh.

You said rules are powerless? I highly disagree. Rules are important and fundamental part to keep a society work. Rules are important part of a system. Bank is an example. How can you trust a bank to keep your money safe if it doesn't have strict rules and regulations? How can you transfer money to your family in another city or another state through bank without a proper financial system? How can you run a business without a fair system?

You said you don't think rules are important, but you don't break rules because it only gives the rules a stronger meaning? LOL. That's just another way of saying that you don't want to break the rules because you are afraid of the consequences. Rules are man made. Rules are meaningless when it fail to serve justice for the society. That's when breaking the rules to fix the system is necessary. You got to set things right for everyone.

After provoking my classmates to rebel against the orientation system in my department, we conduct a series of resistance against the old system. Few years later, the university agreed to reorganize the orientation system and renew it with better rules. The seniors that bullied their juniors were punished. Better rules, better system, better option for the new students. How is that powerless? How is that meaningless?

So by an Estj breaking a rule one is reinforcing the personality's natural inborn traits to love rules? I wonder what other stuff you guys do, very interesting stuff

Reinforcing the natural inborn? We don't love rules. Nobody love rules. Yet it is necessary and important in everyday lives. We would love to drive in an empty road with no red lights. But imagine what it would be like if no driver care with the street lights, if they just drive just like the way they want it without paying attention to the rules on the road.

[ESTJ_TE]

I break rules when it 'makes sense' and would not hurt me if another did so ... so I don't cheat on lovers, but I speed etc.

Im tit-for-tat so I would break a rule if I saw someone else do so and benefit over me.

Im working on the t-f-t crap.