[Emerson]

Typical conversation between me and my ESFJ ex girlfriend-
Me "Hey, I'm off out to do X."
Her /sighs "Why?"
Me "Because I like to do it."
Her "EVERYONE said to me that its stupid, do you want people to call you stupid?"
Me "I don't care really, I'm doing it for me not them."
Her "You don't care what they think?"
Me "Nope."
Around this point she'd run away and I'd be left trying to work out what I'd done wrong.

My issue with ESFJ's is-
They care what others think of them.
They lie to you about stuff rather than be honest.
They can't keep their noses out.
The don't appriciate lists of 3.

(The last one was a joke.)

[WickedQueen]

Anyway, many of the qualities they exibit strike me as very 'fake', I can't imagine it being that hard for others to pick up on.

Oh, we know. Yet unlike you, we are able to see their non-fake qualities as well, that shines through and cover up their bad qualities.They aren't perfect (just like any other types). But they are awesome for what they are, and there's nothing about them I want to change.

[scarygirl]

Maybe we all are unhealthy, and an unhealthy ESFJ is harder to put up with than an unhealthy INTP

[MartyMcFly1]

Oh, we know. Yet unlike you, we are able to see their non-fake qualities as well, that shines through and cover up their bad qualities.They aren't perfect (just like any other types). But they are awesome for what they are, and there's nothing about them I want to change.

But like everybody else you are only quoting what you want to here, the "poorly developed ESFJ" and not the one who was raised with good values.


I don't think I've ever heard something like that... I think that the last thing an ESFJ would do was drop somebody because they were "uncool" or no longer "well liked". It's sort of pertinent to point out that the defining trait or description of the ESFJ is "The Helper" or "The Caregiver", not the "Uncaring asshole". That description is quite Opposite what a "caregiver" is.

I'm going to be blunt in this post because there is a lot of this when most people seem to describe the "unhealthy" ones.
These are from here: ESFJ - The Helper


ESFJ's generally don't take no for an answer when somebody refuses help or says they don't want to be friends, especially if the SJ function which is quick to judge decided that they were an OK person.


They are hurt by indifference, and once again "discarding" or not talking to somebody because they're "not cool" is not a general trait of the ESFJ.

(From the Personality Page)

You're also ENTP which differs quite a bit form ESFJ, J and P and N and S are quite big differences in the way that people see the world, and whilst I won't say you have, a lot of people gloss over this point ignoring the fact that ESFJ's are generally entirely based around feelings.

Yes, ESFJ's have good qualities but that isn't what this discussion is about. This is about why people dislike them and I was just trying to put it into perspective. I was just citing my experiences with ESFJ's and what I have gathered from reading up on them. In my eyes the bad qualities outweigh the good by a lot. But, everyone doesn't have to like everyone, and once again I was simply honestly answering a question.

[WickedQueen]

Yes, ESFJ's have good qualities but that isn't what this discussion is about. This is about why people dislike them and I was just trying to put it into perspective. I was just citing my experiences with ESFJ's and what I have gathered from reading up on them. In my eyes the bad qualities outweigh the good by a lot. But, everyone doesn't have to like everyone, and once again I was simply honestly answering a question.

I was replying to your particular sentence:

Anyway, many of the qualities they exibit strike me as very 'fake', I can't imagine it being that hard for others to pick up on.

You were assuming that others can't pick up those ESFJ qualities which you described as 'fake'.

I refuted your assumption.

Oh, we know.

[ItsAlwaysSunny]

i'm sorry but these all just seem like lame attempts to classify annoying people as ESFJs.

Since when does Fe have anything to do with being a complete follower? Doesn't it just mean that you tend to take the values of the group into consideration because you think that something that is widely accepted may have some validity to it. And doesn't it also mean that they are less likely to trust their own personal values if it goes against the group, because they wonder why a larger number of people would value something that isn't actually valuable? Isn't it just a decision making function that checks in with the external standard? Fe users are still completely capable of going against the group if they check in with the group and see that something is really fishy about it.

[Tengwar]

It's difficult to describe why the different functions annoys different kinds of people. There aren't many ESFJ's on this forum, which means that there are many people here who are very different from ESFJ's. That might be why you think that they're are more disliked that other types. Personally, I don't think that's the case.

I have an ESFJ friend. We don't get along very well, and it's mostly because of her Fe and my Fi.
She wants to change people's life and she doesn't even ask them if they want change.
She rambles.
She expresses her feelings just too much. People stop listening.
She cares to much about what people think about her.

But she's very friendly and kind. I'll never forget the day when she brought me to a coffee shop and asked me to tell her about my life. She was the only one who saw how sad I was at the time and who tried to do something about it.

[Blonde_Doctor]

Although I am an ESFJ, I'm still sometimes annoyed by other ESFJs. I have 3 female, ESFJ acquaintances (I haven't been able to type any of my male friends as ESFJ). They are very nice, caring, etc., but two of them are definitely too talkative. When they open their mouths a flow of words emerges. For the first thirty minutes it's quite interesting, but then the level of the dispute gradually decreases. Maybe I'm spoiled by my INTP/J best friends, but I'm used to topics in discussion ranging from the existence of God to the qualities of a certain nail polish. With ESFJs the most serious topic you can talk about are relationships (no religion, politics, etc.). But to talk about your relationship you must know the person you're speaking with and trust them. ESFJs tend to get this kind of personal information out of you even if it's the first time you talk with them. They give good advice and are able to support you in almost any situation, but still they sometimes become too nosy (usually because of their good intension to help).

[MartyMcFly1]

Oh, we know. Yet unlike you, we are able to see their non-fake qualities as well, that shines through and cover up their bad qualities.They aren't perfect (just like any other types). But they are awesome for what they are, and there's nothing about them I want to change.

Was there a point to this post, or did you just want to get thanked?

I was replying to your particular sentence:You were assuming that others can't pick up those ESFJ qualities which you described as 'fake'.

I refuted your assumption.

Except for in my post I claimed I didn't believe it would be hard for people to pick up on the negative qualities that an ESFJ has, I never said that it would be hard to pick up on.

i'm sorry but these all just seem like lame attempts to classify annoying people as ESFJs.

Since when does Fe have anything to do with being a complete follower? Doesn't it just mean that you tend to take the values of the group into consideration because you think that something that is widely accepted may have some validity to it. And doesn't it also mean that they are less likely to trust their own personal values if it goes against the group, because they wonder why a larger number of people would value something that isn't actually valuable? Isn't it just a decision making function that checks in with the external standard? Fe users are still completely capable of going against the group if they check in with the group and see that something is really fishy about it.

Holding the values of a group over your own because 'they have strength in numbers' is a telltale sign of a follower, whether you want to believe that or not. The thing about dominant Fe users it that they completely suppress their Ti. They completely suppress their logical decision-making process, and because of that they literally will push thoughts out of their head in order to maintain their happiness, which they find externally (It is my belief that the external world should be dealt with objectively if one ever wants ot come to a true understanding of it). They don't at all enjoy discussing things that have the potential to change any of their beliefs. Because of that quality, almost every ESFJ I meet tends to 'live in a fantasy world' where everyone loves them and nobody should question anyone's beliefs no matter how fucked up they are.

ESFJ's LOVE (LOVE), talking to other people about their problems, they seem to really enjoy doing this. However, they don't actually want any advice, or even your honest opinion. They want you to maintain their inner harmony, they want to be agreed with no matter what they are saying. If you don't agree with them, they will not only get upset internally, they will hold you responsible for them no longer being happy. I've found myself in this position many times where an ESFJ will vent about their problems to me, and when I offer a solution or my honest opinion they get more upset at me than the people who initially wronged them.

It was most likely an ESFJ who came up with the clever saying "Don't discuss religion and politics with others". I'm sure if I ran into an ESFJ member of the Compton gang the Bloods, and I casually asked him," Do you find it at all counterproductive to live your entire life wanting to kill an entire group of people because of the colors they are wearing? And furthermore, do you believe that selling drugs for 14 hours a day on the corner is more lucrative than working a minimum wage job if you were to sit down and add up all the profits and risk of each activity?" They would probably assault me on the spot, there really is no reasoning with them. They are going to do what they're going to do. I grew up in a pretty good community and there was an ESFJ there that I associated with from time to time, when we got to college he started hanging out with a bunch of meatheads and began doing things with those kids that seemed strange given his past so I called him on it and he got very upset with me. I didn't really notice, because an ESFJ never shows more respect to someone than when they are upset with them or hate/dislike them.

The defining their values externally is really the worst thing about them in my eyes. They can grow up in a bad environment and be slow to change. Or, they can grow up in a good environment and be quick to change if everyone around them is doing bad things. It's very strange. They literally live for the approval of others. And I find they aren't very witty/clever so they just agree with people to get themselves liked. They will literally sit and agree with a ton of things that someone is saying that they don't actually endorse or support just to get on that persons good side (which I'm not entirely against, but they don't seem to be conscious of doing it like I am, so they really do begin to adopt the skewed value systems of other people).

They seem allergic to a relatively objective analysis that upsets them. They don't like it, don't want to hear it, and don't think they should ever have to.

[stickr]

ESFJ's LOVE (LOVE), talking to other people about their problems, they seem to really enjoy doing this. However, they don't actually want any advice, or even your honest opinion. They want you to maintain their inner harmony, they want to be agreed with no matter what they are saying. If you don't agree with them, they will not only get upset internally, they will hold you responsible for them no longer being happy. I've found myself in this position many times where an ESFJ will vent about their problems to me, and when I offer a solution or my honest opinion they get more upset at me than the people who initially wronged them.

I'll happily admit this is me, whilst I know it's probably a bad thing that I will get upset at people who offer a different opinion, that's generally only the case when I'm really pissed off with something and I'll use everything to support my own judgement. But generally nowadays, I'm at least aware of this when it happens and I'm able to sometimes stop it. And yeah, there's not much else I enjoy more than talking to other people about their problems.

And I find they aren't very witty/clever so they just agree with people to get themselves liked

I think this is more based on the individual than just an ESFJ trait, you'll come across more than enough people like this who are not ESFJ. Just because you're ESFJ doesn't mean you can't have "humour".