[MyLittleBlackHeart]

Something I have noticed and am trying to grasp with the ESFx (though I think J in particular) behavior...

Is it a passive aggressive trait to make critical comments about someone they are upset with? Do they confront who they are upset with or is this how it is handled?

I know they will willingly compliment you directly.. However it seems the 'vent' indirectly.

Example:

If they are upset with their spouse over lets say Valentine's day (which is where I saw a dramatic display of it on FBook)... they will compliment someone who paid attention to their spouse yet vent about their own like this:

'Oh, it is so nice to see you be so appreciative of your wife. SOOOOOOOOO many men take advantage of the women in their life.'
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2nd question....

If someone is doing this over and over does it mean they are unhappy, or is this just a way of venting?
I look at it from my perspective and feel I would be just about finished with a relationship if I had those same feelings. However, it seems she hangs on.

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No offense but this seems like nagging, just sayin'

[dasch]

Is it passive aggressive to make critical comments about someone I was upset with? it depends! but it's so much easier if you confront the person that you're upset with so that they'd know, but it isn't always exactly that easy to let them know why you're upset. They would always ask why and want to know why.

it's a hard question to answer. I think that it'd depend a lot on who the person is. I think it might be because it's both being unhappy and venting out. It'd be pointless to stay in a relationship like this though

hope I helped

[saslou]

See i think it is in how it is perceived.

Sometimes i will come across as critical if i have asked several times (for example .. Can you wash your hands more often so there is not dirty fingers prints all over the doors, fridge, kettle) but that is not nagging i think, i just don't want to clean up after a grown man and 2 kids .. I don't think it is a lot to ask. It's just practical.

There are other times when i ask something and it gets blown so out of proportion .. It was just a suggestion. If you are viewing it as critical then it has more to do with you than me.

Most times however, i just keep my mouth shut .. Not worth the hassle. I also don't like conflict or playing the blame game.

EDIT - I also like venting .. If i don't want an argument/discussion with my partner, to just go somewhere and vent, calms me down. It makes me realise that i am putting to much weight to it then go back to normality and continue as usual. I would rather let it out than bottle it up, than explode on someone. Not a good idea, me thinks.

[MyLittleBlackHeart]

saslou, you have a VERY enfj feel to me. :)

[saslou]

saslou, you have a VERY enfj feel to me. :)

Thank you. I am however very much a sensor (according to the tests).

Maybe maturity plays a big part in it :)

[Thinker96]

the esfj i dated a while back liked to vent a lot. and me being a good listener usually worked out pretty well. so if there was ever a conflict it was usually approached but sometimes she came on too strong about it and there were times i just didnt want to hear it because it did feel like nagging. then there were the times when if something was 'wrong' nothing would be really said but id hear it back from others or in very subtle text, like sarcastic comments or msgs
but i guess it depends on each person too

[bonfirequeen]

Something I have noticed and am trying to grasp with the ESFx (though I think J in particular) behavior...

Is it a passive aggressive trait to make critical comments about someone they are upset with? Do they confront who they are upset with or is this how it is handled?

I know they will willingly compliment you directly.. However it seems the 'vent' indirectly.

Example:

If they are upset with their spouse over lets say Valentine's day (which is where I saw a dramatic display of it on FBook)... they will compliment someone who paid attention to their spouse yet vent about their own like this:

'Oh, it is so nice to see you be so appreciative of your wife. SOOOOOOOOO many men take advantage of the women in their life.'
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2nd question....

If someone is doing this over and over does it mean they are unhappy, or is this just a way of venting?
I look at it from my perspective and feel I would be just about finished with a relationship if I had those same feelings. However, it seems she hangs on.

-----------------------------------------------------

No offense but this seems like nagging, just sayin'

I swear I work with a gal who is an ESFJ. I have no proof other than my experiences with her. She can turn a phrase very easily and be similarly indirect, almost blame-casting, in how she words things and she completely doesn't see it. She's oblivious to herself, and after "listening-through-the-lines" so to speak, I think I have determined that how she's saying things really is how she really sees things, and she (like all of us I'm sure) thinks that the person she's "venting" to (me) is seeing things from the same vantage point she is. "Oh, uh-huh, honey, you are so right!" LOL. Being the "listener" kind of personality I am, I think she feels safe to offload to me, apparently, because in our long car rides to client meetings she'll open up. But I totally have a different perspective and am much less inclined to make judgements in the same way she does. My judgements are just very different. The conversation with her tends to be very "who's at fault" oriented. Like she can't BELIEVE what mother would treat her children "that" way. Or she can't BELIEVE a teacher would do "that". I can't explain it...She doesn't seem to be able to be very objective.

At first I thought she was being manipulative and coniving, blame-casting, to power herself up somehow, point out how "good" she is or her worldview is and how "bad" the other person/idea/action/institution is. Or thought maybe she was trying to trap me in my words or something. I was a little afraid of her at first. She came off like some journalists I've observed who blame-cast. Maybe that's in there a bit somewhere in her, having to paint the story a certain way, but I can see that in her mind, she sees herself as a good person and not being mean to anyone in the world. She strikes me as a golden retriever (that sounds terrible to liken her to a kind of dog), but she has that happy-go-lucky, loyal personality, very playful & loving. Yet she is very able to spin words like you're saying. It's hard to explain...and I can't think of a strong concrete example right now...wish I could. It's just interesting to observe.

I have learned I have to be careful how I act around her so I don't rile her suspicions and get her zeroing in on me, suspecting me because then I'm the next one she'll be targeting. LOL! It's a funny discourse! I'm glad I know her well or it could be disasterous! -- Oh, that's it! Eureka, I've got it! LOL, there's like a constant suspicion going on in her mind, suspecting people's motives & behaviors, and then pointing those out. Almost like in her mind the world should work a certain way. People should behave in a certain way that is nice & kind, and when that doesn't happen, those observations, value-judgements, or blaming statements come out. It's not heavy-handed, it's just subtle. So she thinks she's being all sweet & kind, but she's really making some accusational statements she doesn't even realizing she's making because she thinks the world should just act that way. I sit back and just smile. What can be said? She's going to see it how she sees it. There's no changing her mind. She'd have to observe or experience something different in order to see it another way. I don't know, now I'm rambling on too much.

[bonfirequeen]

saslou, you have a VERY enfj feel to me. :)

Cute. But she's far too practical. lol! :) I don't get after people to do stuff I want them to do in a direct manner. I want to keep the peace and try to influence them toward what I want. And then have an emotional tantrum when it doesn't happen. LOL! Of course I'm not every ENFJ!

[bonfirequeen]

Thank you. I am however very much a sensor (according to the tests).

Maybe maturity plays a big part in it :)

Go you! I would agree about the sensor part. I can sense it already, lol, but I'm no pro at typing, just intuiting.

[Tongue Tied]

I swear I work with a gal who is an ESFJ. I have no proof other than my experiences with her. She can turn a phrase very easily and be similarly indirect, almost blame-casting, in how she words things and she completely doesn't see it. She's oblivious to herself, and after "listening-through-the-lines" so to speak, I think I have determined that how she's saying things really is how she really sees things, and she (like all of us I'm sure) thinks that the person she's "venting" to (me) is seeing things from the same vantage point she is. "Oh, uh-huh, honey, you are so right!" LOL. Being the "listener" kind of personality I am, I think she feels safe to offload to me, apparently, because in our long car rides to client meetings she'll open up. But I totally have a different perspective and am much less inclined to make judgements in the same way she does. My judgements are just very different. The conversation with her tends to be very "who's at fault" oriented. Like she can't BELIEVE what mother would treat her children "that" way. Or she can't BELIEVE a teacher would do "that". I can't explain it...She doesn't seem to be able to be very objective.

At first I thought she was being manipulative and coniving, blame-casting, to power herself up somehow, point out how "good" she is or her worldview is and how "bad" the other person/idea/action/institution is. Or thought maybe she was trying to trap me in my words or something. I was a little afraid of her at first. She came off like some journalists I've observed who blame-cast. Maybe that's in there a bit somewhere in her, having to paint the story a certain way, but I can see that in her mind, she sees herself as a good person and not being mean to anyone in the world. She strikes me as a golden retriever (that sounds terrible to liken her to a kind of dog), but she has that happy-go-lucky, loyal personality, very playful & loving. Yet she is very able to spin words like you're saying. It's hard to explain...and I can't think of a strong concrete example right now...wish I could. It's just interesting to observe.

I have learned I have to be careful how I act around her so I don't rile her suspicions and get her zeroing in on me, suspecting me because then I'm the next one she'll be targeting. LOL! It's a funny discourse! I'm glad I know her well or it could be disasterous! -- Oh, that's it! Eureka, I've got it! LOL, there's like a constant suspicion going on in her mind, suspecting people's motives & behaviors, and then pointing those out. Almost like in her mind the world should work a certain way. People should behave in a certain way that is nice & kind, and when that doesn't happen, those observations, value-judgements, or blaming statements come out. It's not heavy-handed, it's just subtle. So she thinks she's being all sweet & kind, but she's really making some accusational statements she doesn't even realizing she's making because she thinks the world should just act that way. I sit back and just smile. What can be said? She's going to see it how she sees it. There's no changing her mind. She'd have to observe or experience something different in order to see it another way. I don't know, now I'm rambling on too much.

ESFJs like this make me feel "judged" and NOT very "accepted" as an individual. If I don't fit into the person's perspective, they feel the need to correct me and nitpick at my personality. It's almost like, "You're WRONG and have not seen the light... I will show the way". To me, this seems very closed-minded. Sorry, I know not all ESFJs are like this.