Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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This is a discussion on ESFJ critical vs complimentary within the ESFJ Forum - The Caregivers forums, part of the SJ's Temperament Forum- The Overseers category; Originally Posted by bonfirequeen Cute. But she's far too practical. lol! :) I don't get after people to do stuff ...
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
But this thread is about ESFJ's! So forgive me, I won't derail it any further!
Ohhh .. Don't worry about derailing, this is interesting as apparently we have only one letter different.
So you will use your intuition as a guide to help influence others? Whereas i will get a sense of something off and act accordingly. I may tell the other person of the instinct i have and they can either listen or not. It is usually though about me and not someone else. I am aware i have no right to influence others, they have to take responsibility for themselves, although i can be there in a supportive role, i suppose. For example when instinct tells me someone is bullshitting me, i will call them out on it. Occasionally i may be wrong but usually i am not. So I've called them out on their bullshit, now what? If they don't agree with me, i can't do anything about it. So it is left alone.
I used to take constructive criticism personally but have come to realise of late that i can take it as fact or opinion. I am mature enough to take the information, find a quiet place and rationalise it. I am not solid but fluid in my thinking, so if someone can help me grow to a place of peace with myself then it's all good.
Of everything you have said .. What concerns me most is the word influence .. When does influencing someone become meddling, what if you have an idea (intuition kicking in) and the other person disagrees with your intervention. At what point are you crossing the line?
In reality, this is totally unnecessary. The most honest way of communication is in revealing where we stand and making our wants known openly rather than subtly, and face the risk of discomfort it may cause. I've been learning personally to overcome this silly trait. It's as hard as prying your fingers off an electric fence! You just have to trust that you can do it and force yourself to do it. And then it gets easier. This thread (I found on here) may offer more insight ENFJs & Manipulation.
I think ESFJ's have more guts. They don't seem to have such a strong concern over how they'll be received. They seem more interested in cutting the crap than being so gentle & sugar-coating things. They bravely face the bad emotions that may arise from making their position known because the ESFJ feels they did the right thing to "expose" or "confront" the fallacy. The ENFJ seeks to garner agreement in their winsome, magnetic way, which I think can be annoying to certain types. I believe Obama is an ENFJ, for better or worse.
Last edited by bonfirequeen; 03-22-2010 at 04:40 PM.
Thank you for your honesty. Much appreciated.
When i started reading your post, my jaw dropped. I couldn't believe you was so blaise about it but coming to the end of the post, i am happy that you see it as a silly trait and are working on growing as an individual *thumbs up*
I wonder if this is why i don't have any NF friends (mostly NT's, love a rational mind and maybe some S's), i see when people are playing/influencing me and i won't stand for it.
My partner, bless him is an NF and i see straight through his projection bullshit and i'll pull him on it .. He has a choice just like everyone else .. Say it how it is or don't say it at all, just don't play games with me .. As mature adults we have a choice how we behave, we can deal with conflict in a tactful non-defensive manner or go in guns a blazing .. I've learned from experience the latter is not a good option, lol.
I think the conflict exists between the S and N personality type by default because the basis of the N and S is how you perceive the world; "as it is" (S), or "as it could be" (N), and neither type respects or willingly accepts the other's viewpoint at a gut level, because you suspect the other of not perceiving things correctly, thus the conflict. That's my opinion from my observations & experiences.
Thanks for discussing this. I am enjoying talking with you. (and that's the truth, no manipulation, lol!)
One positive trait the ENFJ has is a very keen eye on others motives that I think the ESFJ doesn't always perceive. I can sense a mile away a person with bad intent, a shyster (someone who acts in a disreputable, unethical, or unscrupulous way). My ESFJ friend is usually more trusting than I am and takes a person at face value. But she has a keen sense of the politics going on behind the scenes that I don't usually catch. I guess our opposite ways of perceiving things make us a good team.
aaaaaaaargh I have an INTP boyfriend with an ESFJ mother. for the first several months we were dating she got overprotective and criticized me CONSTANTLY both behind my back and to my face. for example, she thought i had weird table manners and whenever we sat down to eat she would just stare at me, her eyes bulging out...
a lot of the time her criticism was concealed as caring, though. she started sending out all these emails about me to her family members about how she was 'worried ' about me because i might have -gasp - dyspraxia. which is a fancy way of saying I'M CLUMSY. she kept talking to people about how she was just concerned ... even though our relationship was great, was living on my own, had like a 3.8 at a top University...
she'd also be critical of me for not following 'house rules' that i had no idea existed, like which basket to put the clean glasses in. but she wouldn't tell me about it, just criticize me behind my back and hold a grudge. she'd also make backhanded comments about how my mother must have raised me.
...sorry to vent, this thread just brought back memories. i'm certainly not saying that all or even most ESFJ's are this bad; his mom's had a lot of issues in her life so isn't terribly psychologically healthy. but one day i just snapped and yelled at her and she never bothered me again
The ESFJ friends I've had were never really critical, only really sweet and all to eager to give compliments. Even for things I didn't really think required being complemented on. They're awesome and I wish there were more ESFJs on this forum.
I have to realise that people are looking after number 1, which makes sense and think the same regarding myself .. Not easy though.