[Fawcon]

My ISFJ mother and argued alot when I was younger and up until recently. We never understood each other. It's gotten a bit better now. But she still blames me for things without having evidence. It's weird how much she doesn't really know me, even though she raised me. I never felt comfortable opening up to her because apart from being family we don't have anything in common.

Completely, I never opened up to my mother and to be honest I always thought I was better off solving my own problems than turning to my mother for advice. My mother has a weird thing where she denies the truth sometimes even though its staring her in the face very annoying. She never understood why I wasn't into the usual girl things like my sister who tested ESFJ.

I'm pretty certain my father is a very unstable version of the ESTJ; "guardian" of all that he boxes in as (mostly) black and white in the world. My mother would be an ISFJ "nurturer" in denial of the trouble her weakness has caused through the years, never taking any blame or responsibility on herself for her own inactions.

My four years younger sister was very unsure of herself taking the MBTI. She couldn't really answer anything about herself except for the "S". This didn't really come as a surprise to me as she's been walking in my footsteps all her life having to make a minimal of choices herself. But I get it must have been hard growing up in my shadow as I was getting all the (albeit negative) attention.

This copycat thing has really bothered me from time to time. When we where younger, in a store for example, she would pick the exact same things as me and wouldn't get anything until she'd seen what I was getting. Always. She idolised me but left me nothing for myself. My parents just told me I was acting stupid when I got upset at times that I didn't get to be my OWN person. They didn't get that (or integrity for that matter) at all.

In her 20s my sister decided to go to the same law school as me (and I of course gladly let her use all my notes and books), but then she also decided to do an exchange program in the same county as me, and switched accomodation to my MY old doorm (my very room) staying with my old friends. Then she even wrote her master thesis within the same narrow field as I - out of all possible legal stuff she could have written about. Then I found her in bed with my exdate after I had unburdened myself crying to her (and her only) about how hard it had been to handle a situation involving him, why I had decided to step away. When I didn't talk to her in two months she didn't even get why. No Asbergers.

I'm not saying my baby sister is a BAD person but she doesn't seem to get "personality", "moral" or right/wrong in an internal sense. When her present (and first at the age of 26) boyfriend tested ISTJ "the dutyfiller" on MBTI it sort of made sense to me that she could be too - although he seems very moral at the other end of the spectre. No matter he seems very good for her, like she is finally finding herself with him. This makes me very happy to see, and I get the feeling that a future potentially huge crisis has been averted.



Needled to say - I'm an ALIEN to my S.T/F.J. family.
In my fathers words, when I was about 11 years old I just "suddenly woke up and had turned *stupid* over night". Stupid of course meant that I was inquisitive and >dangerous< if alowed to talk as I had more factual and logically motivated arguments than a 26 years older man. Oh how I used to envy those families who could actually TALK to each other at dinner...

But I guess spending all that time locked up in my room in total darkness for pissing him of in whatever way (like resembling my mother after they had had a fight, or accidentally dropping some corn on the floor) did serve it's purpose: It gave me the time to develop a strong Ti just to keep some integrity by analysing their behaviour and the context...And of course a killer Ne envisioning all the possible ways for me to get out of there and NEVER ever turning out like them.

Result: ENTP. I'm pretty sure a large percent of us girls might share these types of backgrounds. It would sort of be nice to know even...

[yesiknowbut]

I dunno, I think that you conclude that Ti develops because you have to try to rationalise peoples' behaviour somehow....but actually I think it just makes you a better survivor if you have it.

I had all sorts of difficulties growing up, but thankfully the S-N comprehension divide wasn't one of them. All of my birth family are Ns.

[OMEGA]

Yes, yes and yes.

Same parent combo here as well. Although my father´s manipulative streak and always wanting to look so extremely good in front of others,projecting "the perfect family" and "never any problems" lead me to think a strong or dominant Fe instead of Te.
I´ve never gotten along with my mother.

I´ve poured my heart out in another thread and won´t repeat too much of it here.

I'm pretty certain my father is a very unstable version of the ESTJ; "guardian" of all that he boxes in as (mostly) black and white in the world. My mother would be an ISFJ "nurturer" in denial of the trouble her weakness has caused through the years, never taking any blame or responsibility on herself for her own inactions.

My four years younger sister was very unsure of herself taking the MBTI. She couldn't really answer anything about herself except for the "S". This didn't really come as a surprise to me as she's been walking in my footsteps all her life having to make a minimal of choices herself. But I get it must have been hard growing up in my shadow as I was getting all the (albeit negative) attention.

This copycat thing has really bothered me from time to time. When we where younger, in a store for example, she would pick the exact same things as me and wouldn't get anything until she'd seen what I was getting. Always. She idolised me but left me nothing for myself. My parents just told me I was acting stupid when I got upset at times that I didn't get to be my OWN person. They didn't get that (or integrity for that matter) at all.

In her 20s my sister decided to go to the same law school as me (and I of course gladly let her use all my notes and books), but then she also decided to do an exchange program in the same county as me, and switched accomodation to my MY old doorm (my very room) staying with my old friends. Then she even wrote her master thesis within the same narrow field as I - out of all possible legal stuff she could have written about. Then I found her in bed with my exdate after I had unburdened myself crying to her (and her only) about how hard it had been to handle a situation involving him, why I had decided to step away. When I didn't talk to her in two months she didn't even get why. No Asbergers.

I'm not saying my baby sister is a BAD person but she doesn't seem to get "personality", "moral" or right/wrong in an internal sense. When her present (and first at the age of 26) boyfriend tested ISTJ "the dutyfiller" on MBTI it sort of made sense to me that she could be too - although he seems very moral at the other end of the spectre. No matter he seems very good for her, like she is finally finding herself with him. This makes me very happy to see, and I get the feeling that a future potentially huge crisis has been averted.

Needled to say - I'm an ALIEN to my S.T/F.J. family.
In my fathers words, when I was about 11 years old I just "suddenly woke up and had turned *stupid* over night". Stupid of course meant that I was inquisitive and >dangerous< if alowed to talk as I had more factual and logically motivated arguments than a 26 years older man. Oh how I used to envy those families who could actually TALK to each other at dinner...

But I guess spending all that time locked up in my room in total darkness for pissing him of in whatever way (like resembling my mother after they had had a fight, or accidentally dropping some corn on the floor) did serve it's purpose: It gave me the time to develop a strong Ti just to keep some integrity by analysing their behaviour and the context...And of course a killer Ne envisioning all the possible ways for me to get out of there and NEVER ever turning out like them.

Result: ENTP. I'm pretty sure a large percent of us girls might share these types of backgrounds. It would sort of be nice to know even...

[Jojo354]

Needled to say - I'm an ALIEN to my S.T/F.J. family.
In my fathers words, when I was about 11 years old I just "suddenly woke up and had turned *stupid* over night". Stupid of course meant that I was inquisitive and >dangerous< if alowed to talk as I had more factual and logically motivated arguments than a 26 years older man. Oh how I used to envy those families who could actually TALK to each other at dinner...

Exactly what my family say about me, when I hit 11/12 I turned into the devil child apparently. I started to argue back with shock horror "LOGIC" and didn't respond to emotional blackmail from my XSFJ mother. My sister on the other hand was passive and in there eyes the "good" one. I on the other hand would argue everything, most of the time because I thought I had a point other times to wind them up to prove a point.......I'm glad to say I pick my battles a little better these days!!

My father, an ENTP on the other hand was completely different with me we would sit and debate religion, history, evolution.....anything abstract or theoretical which I know he was always really impressed by that a small kid could have adult debates and quite well informed opinions for my age......being an ENTP we never did that emotional stuff but I know he secretly loved it.

Apparently its around early teens the T / F function becomes evident. The child's version of myers briggs doesn't include the T / F. For example an ENFP and an ENTP would both test as ENP and exhibit the same behaviours only early teens does the T or F function come to the fore. Although I would say even at toddler age it was evident that I would have turned out ENTP.

Its not easy being a female ENTP, the whole round peg square whole thing does get a bit annoying because there are so few people I can really connect to but I wouldn't want to be anything else. Looking at my ESFJ, ENFP, ENFJ friends, they just seem to bounce from one emotional trauma to the next!!!

[weebit]

@ Kaylee--I don't act like a boy either. I might curse alot and be blunt at times but I wear girl clothes, look feminine, and try to stay up on fashion in my own way.

[OMEGA]

Exactly what my family say about me, when I hit 11/12 I turned into the devil child apparently. I started to argue back with shock horror "LOGIC" and didn't respond to emotional blackmail from my XSFJ mother. My sister on the other hand was passive and in there eyes the "good" one. I on the other hand would argue everything, most of the time because I thought I had a point other times to wind them up to prove a point.......I'm glad to say I pick my battles a little better these days!!

Needled to say - I'm an ALIEN to my S.T/F.J. family.
In my fathers words, when I was about 11 years old I just "suddenly woke up and had turned *stupid* over night". Stupid of course meant that I was inquisitive and >dangerous< if alowed to talk as I had more factual and logically motivated arguments than a 26 years older man. Oh how I used to envy those families who could actually TALK to each other at dinner...

Hm. It´s so sad that parents are so convicted to form their kids into their own shape whether it fits the child or not (my interpretation). My mouth was closed shut many times and nipped in the bud before even trying to say anything. The tactiques used vere aimed at fear, fear of the belt and ridicule of my looks, and unfortunately it worked. I did get too frightened to speak at home and never ever wanted to be at home. Home. Well, I use the word but in this case it lacks the meaning others would put into it. It´s the place that happened to contain my bed. This started when I was 5 or 6, maybe I could have handled it differently if I was a bit older.
Then again, a hefty person of nearly two meters in height is frightening for a child even if the face would have been as mild as Jesus'. Add size combined with anger...well I can´t blame myself for not standing up to him at that age.
Their view of things was that no matter what, our kids are to be blamed and everyone else is right. Why? because they were too occupied in thinking what others thought of them as parents. That really backfired, but is another story. They also played the game of changing the rules all the time, so we never had the chance to "do right", this combined with sarcasm. Things that no child can handle.

It must have been really nice and comforting having those discussions with your dad Jojo354.

I try these days, but our different views on things combined with his extremely close-minded attitude makes it unfruitful. He always talks about how he has had to tell people how to do something or how to be and not to be. In essence he´s telling me how wrong they are and how good and right he is, everything should be according to his agenda or standards and every other possible way is wrong and ignored. I become their voice in these discussions offering him alternative ways to see the issue he presents and how his presentations, choice of word etc possibly can affect people, and how and why they act and respond the way they do. Of course it´s speculative, half of the time I don´t even know them. He hates this type of analysis (any analysing at all -his own words) and it ends with him changing subject or if on the phone, ending the conversation. I have really wanted to get along with him, that won´t happen, but I now seek these confrontations with him to sharpen up myself. So, maybe I´m no better, but by using it then it´s not a complete waste of time.

[gingertonic]

I tend to think that I would have gotten away with far, far less as a child if I were female. I mouthed off a lot, but since I was the prince, the firstborn son, I did anything I wanted.

[OMEGA]

I tend to think that I would have gotten away with far, far less as a child if I were female. I mouthed off a lot, but since I was the prince, the firstborn son, I did anything I wanted.

I do believe this too. I also believe it to be a sort of a gender issue even as we age.
(I was also first-born...the princess that got away, became a troll *s*, coming home with dirty clothes because the bike chain jumped out of place... (and dirty clothes are the absolute worst thing in the world!)) I did not get away with anything.

[possiBri]

I tend to think that I would have gotten away with far, far less as a child if I were female. I mouthed off a lot, but since I was the prince, the firstborn son, I did anything I wanted.

HAHA You'd be surprised... I got away with A LOT of stuff too, often being told that if that had been how one of my parents had acted/spoke to their parents, that they'd have been smacked/beaten — so I got away with a lot partially because my parents wanted to break the cycle of abuse, but also because I've always been good at justifying or making up for my "roughness" with humor and/or intellect.

I am the first-born as well, and while I think that did let me get away with SOME things, I also tended to get blamed for stuff that wasn't my fault, or shouldn't have been considered my fault. "You're older so you know better" is one of the most irritating things my parents would tell me.

[Fawcon]

I am the first-born as well, and while I think that did let me get away with SOME things, I also tended to get blamed for stuff that wasn't my fault, or shouldn't have been considered my fault. "You're older so you know better" is one of the most irritating things my parents would tell me.

My God.
I was the oldest and always got blamed for EVERYTHING just because I was the oldest - child. My sister pulled a lot of crap when we where kids but never got as much as a wrist slap. I was unfortunately suffering from being righteous and trying to fight for justice and the very tiny amount of integrity I had left (I was not allowed to lock any doors, not even to the bathroom, and my father read my diary punishing me for what he found and so on).

Every time someone in my family had misplaced something of theirs, or something was missing, I got blamed... and mostly looked up in my room for saying it wasn't me - telling the truth. Me saying it wasn't only made them angry at me not taking the blame for the good of the family. For balance.

Lying in total darkness like 4 h every other day (until I was ready to beg my father for "forgiveness" playing theater) I just couldn't stop thinking about how WRONG it was. I didn't want to yield and humiliate myself why I just pushed it longer and longer in some sort of a demonstration of power. And even though the words "I'm sorry/forgive me" had absolutely no meaning to until I left home at 17, I just couldn't give up and throw in the towel. I just didn't have it in me like some. I too desperately needed there to be JUSTICE in the world. That I could be entitled to.

Actually when I at one point asked my parents if it would be better that I lied about things I hadn't done instead of telling the truth - like my sister lied - they said that they would prefer it if I lied like her. Oddly I can't even imaging what gain they could possibly have though to get from that, even today. But I figure it might have been just to undermine my actual argument.

This strategy didn't work on me at all but in fact got the opposite result. It made me into a person that notoriously spoke the truth or clammed up afraid to say anything as I knew that whatever came out of MY mouth could immediately send me to my room. Then I got looked up for not saying anything instead. Or for looking like my mom all the while being much less scary to punish since I couldn't leave my father like she could have done. She just let me take it. Every time it would have mattered she failed me. I guess it was easier like that for her.

Anyway, this is one of those things that severely makes me doubt the importance of nurture. I could have reacted so differently to these circumstances. But I didn't. I never once during that time accepted that I deserved to get it "because I was the oldest" or whatever shit they tried to justify their actions and decisions with. To me that is just so messed up that I can hardly believe that this has actually happened to others besides me.

Oh catharsis...