[ENTP] Why do we allow everybody to walk all over us? - Page 6

Why do we allow everybody to walk all over us?

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This is a discussion on Why do we allow everybody to walk all over us? within the ENTP Forum- The Visionaries forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by alfreda In the midst of this discussion there is something potentially important. It is possible to be ...

  1. #51
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    Quote Originally Posted by alfreda View Post
    In the midst of this discussion there is something potentially important. It is possible to be too laid back in life. Personal experience, I let my tolerance and reasoning out of poor behaviour allow it to escalate in my home to the point where I was very miserable indeed. I have absolutely no problem being assertive in most of my life, but living with an alpha FJ type (or, dammit, two FJs and an FP) meant that I felt I had to watch what I say much of the time or I'd face anger and/or histrionics. Pulling back from that situation has been quite difficult, because I cannot allow myself to appear hurt or vulnerable, which is pretty much the only thing that will stop an insensitive or self-centred feeler in their tracks.
    If anyone has advice to offer on that, I'd be grateful for it.
    Thank you. It is very refreshing when somebody says what I am trying to point out in a different way. Maybe now more ENTPs can relate.

    My initial take was purely Fe-based, a little bit of smoke and mirrors to "fool" our Fe to take care of us instead of only other people.
    But what @bluenlgy is saying, the need to develop Fi, some kind of an internal judging system. This sounds familiar.

    So, for your situation, you can think of the two approaches and see which one works better. I'd be curious to hear your opinion.

    As I understand it the question is not how to device a plan of action, but rather what the proper goal is and the motivation behind it.
    You can for example use Fe, say you live for your kids and family who are your closest people, you'd give your life for them. You'd do whatever it takes providing them with the best future possible and that includes teaching them to respect NT's like you, showing some "tough love" so to speak. They'll be hurt, they'll moan, your Fe will try to make you feel bad for them, but your amazing NT rationalizing abilities (we are the Lawyer type) will allow you to see how that is actually good for them and how you are sacrificing you own interests for them by in effect protecting your interests. You show your Fe another point of view, it accepts it and passes judgement on what is right and wrong the way you want it (weak underdeveloped Fi). Am I making any sense here?

    Or develop Fi.

    I don't know ... you tell me. Thank you so much for your contribution to the discussion.

    @dagnytaggart, I didn't know Fe made us in touch with our feelings? It seems it makes us in touch with other people's feelings, not ours.
    And if we feel like feelers to you, imagine how we feel about it when it starts developing, aka rears it's ugly head at the age of 14. Troubled teenage years, here we come :)

    @Aila8
    What do you mean control your feelings? Do you tell your Te "Stop. Now I'll use Fe instead, will pass judgement depending on how other people feel and was is appropriate and accepted in our society. You Te go to bed."
    Berdudget thanked this post.

  2. #52
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Actually, I'd think Ni would be on overdrive. IF I need everyone to agree, I would need to find a way for everyone to agree without sacrificing the main goal. One can tweak little areas without changing the goal.

    And the "control your feelings" was actually referring to your title question. I didn't read the body at first and frankly I'm confused as to what exactly your question is.


    I don't think it would be easy for Te to shut down. I think Te would just determine that person who doesn't want to get on board is needed on the project and so it's imperative that he stays.

    And mind you, society is always changing its mind, I wouldn't compromise a plan on something so fickle.

  3. #53
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    Quote Originally Posted by Aila8 View Post
    I don't think it would be easy for Te to shut down.
    Exactly. We can't turn Fe off also. And it makes us do and think terrible things.

    This is the problem to be solved - one of our functions is effing us big time, how to fix that while still using the function. We can't suppress it and it gives us great powers :) but is still effing with us. Bummer.

  4. #54
    INFJ - The Protectors

    @alfreda, I agree with @Istbkleta. If your particular alpha FJ has any reasoning ability, directly stating why/how you see his treatment, behaviour or thoughts - regardless of the impending, knee-jerk emotional reaction - can, in the end, create an understanding. With continued use and practice, it can eventually lead to fewer emotional reactions, even in a highly reactive person. But stating that seems kind of generic. It would help me to have specifics. I'd happily PM about it. When you say you can't allow yourself to show hurt/vulnerability, do you mean that it is difficult for you to show a visible emotional reaction or is it even by stating that you are experiencing being made to feel vulnerable that you shy away? @Istbkleta, if I now understand your question properly (based on your comment to alfreda), are you saying you see allowing someone else to display an emotional reaction toward you or at you is being walked all over? I have had difficulty understanding exactly what you're asking, in particular, of INFJs in response. But I may just be all dopey from the allergy pills I'm taking.

  5. #55
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by alfreda View Post
    In the midst of this discussion there is something potentially important. It is possible to be too laid back in life. Personal experience, I let my tolerance and reasoning out of poor behaviour allow it to escalate in my home to the point where I was very miserable indeed. I have absolutely no problem being assertive in most of my life, but living with an alpha FJ type (or, dammit, two FJs and an FP) meant that I felt I had to watch what I say much of the time or I'd face anger and/or histrionics. Pulling back from that situation has been quite difficult, because I cannot allow myself to appear hurt or vulnerable, which is pretty much the only thing that will stop an insensitive or self-centred feeler in their tracks.
    If anyone has advice to offer on that, I'd be grateful for it.
    Mutiny...!

  6. #56
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    @Olmed3011, yes, this has been my goal all along. It's time to rise against our oppressors and achieve our full ENTP powers. No matter the cost. :)

    @Berdudget We are rationals, who rationalize and pride ourselves on intellect. We want to be respected.
    But we lack a strong judging function to tell us what to do in life and what is good. Instead we have Fe that makes us sacrifice our interests for the others. Can you imagine the amount of strain this puts on a Rational.

    With only Fe to guide us, we are the ultimate victims. People use us for our intellect, mistreat us and discard us. We get hurt, angry but at the same time don't have a function to give us moral ground to judge what is good for us. We get suspicious of people, can't resist being used against our own interests and simply don't allow anybody to get close, because we know we'll be completely helpless. At the same time we see people for what they are, though Fe wants us to help and belong, we know what's going to happen.

    Have you seen the thread about the levels of friendship zones of the average ENTP?
    Many people reported not having anybody in Zone 1, or having only 1 or 2.

    I'd venture a guess it's not the same with many other types.
    Vilen, Olmed3011 and Berdudget thanked this post.

  7. #57
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Istbkleta View Post
    @Olmed3011, yes, this has been my goal all along. It's time to rise against our oppressors and achieve our full ENTP powers. No matter the cost. :)

    @Berdudget We are rationals, who rationalize and pride ourselves on intellect. We want to be respected.
    But we lack a strong judging function to tell us what to do in life and what is good. Instead we have Fe that makes us sacrifice our interests for the others. Can you imagine the amount of strain this puts on a Rational.

    With only Fe to guide us, we are the ultimate victims. People use us for our intellect, mistreat us and discard us. We get hurt, angry but at the same time don't have a function to give us moral ground to judge what is good for us. We get suspicious of people, can't resist being used against our own interests and simply don't allow anybody to get close, because we know we'll be completely helpless. At the same time we see people for what they are, though Fe wants us to help and belong, we know what's going to happen.

    Have you seen the thread about the levels of friendship zones of the average ENTP?
    Many people reported not having anybody in Zone 1, or having only 1 or 2.

    I'd venture a guess it's not the same with many other types.
    Wow, that's powerful. Thank you for sharing that.
    Olmed3011 thanked this post.

  8. #58
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    @Berdudget You are welcome, it's no secret.
    I need your input, perception and conclusions/revelations how to overcome this. Not your thanks :)

    If one more person starts preaching cheap self help BS about "not letting ..." or "learning", I'll lose it :)

    My Fe tells me all ENTPs deserve better and all people touched by an ENTP deserve a healthier more stable ENTP in their life :)

    I believe you understand what I mean :)

    Berdudget thanked this post.

  9. #59
    INFJ - The Protectors

    @Istbkleta, again with the powerful point made. You have no idea how much that hilariously depressing picture applies to me right now. LOL. I have not seen the thread about ENTPs and the friendship zones. Can you provide a link?

  10. #60
    ENTP - The Visionaries


    Sorry,



    But I've distilled it for you.

    Please share any thoughts you might have on dealing with our Fe so we can use it instead of the other way around.
    devoid and possiBri thanked this post.


 
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