[JesusSuperStars]

I am very curious to see what other ENTPs believe, perceive, and think about numerous subjects that might be controversial. Hopefully we can keep this a conversation between ENTPs, since I think other personality types might take things too personal; however, everyone is welcome to view (it is a public thread.)


I'm interested in seeing if many ENTPs share similar opinions with others based on how they take and process information.

I'm not going to get too descriptive and hope that we can bounce ideas and comments around until I see a need to get very descriptive.

Let's kick things off with:

Humans:

We are selfish animals that have the ability to make intelligent decisions. It is in our nature to be liars, hypocrites, and shallow. This does not completely impede us from doing productive or even "good" things.

That does not mean that we are "evil" beings. I do not have an opinion on whether we could be considered "evil" or "good" but that we are just...human.

Agree, Disagree, Extrapolate.



Abortion:

I'm Pro Choice. Simply put, I believe a woman has the right to do with whatever she wants with her body. Morally, I'm not sure of anyone who could thoroughly convince everyone when a fetus becomes a human. I do know that there is a DEFINITE practical way of knowing and that is at birth.

My hypocrisy is that I would never WANT the person I have conceived a child with to have an abortion even though I have no interest in children.


Marriage and Kids:

No interest in either. I think marriage is unnecessary


Flag Burning:



I think flag burning is fine. It's a flag, and I think anyone who gets worked up over a symbol is, as George Carlin put it, SYMBOL MINDED. Even if we used the Flag as a symbol, I think that flag burning should be considered a hugely patriotic idea.


Agree, Disagree, Extrapolate!
Questions, comments, concerns?

Adrian

You are more than welcome to suggest additions to my list.

[reyesaaronringo]

on the liar bit.
i'm consistently amazed at how much lying is built into our culture. you can lie in your taxes or you can pay up the ass, you can lie at work or you can get paid less(or be fired). sales is the art of lying effectively. there are lies in politics, lies in school, lies here!

i remember a post recently about whether someone would rather have love without sex or sex without love. the bulk of the responders wanted love without sex and that's fine but i think if the men on the forum were honest they would picked sex without love.

anonymous sex is the biggest theme in porn and porn is the biggest thing on the net. it follows then that the bulk of men who watch porn are attracted to this idea. the problem is that you don't want to look like an ass. and that's why we lie.

i know we lie, i know why we lie, i know why we lie and say it's bad. it just amazes me sometimes though.

[JesusSuperStars]

A RESPONSE..OMG

What culture is lying NOT a part of?

[alanv]

I'd like to focus on the dishonesty issue before I get involved with the others. I take a utilitarian stand, I think that dishonesty is alright only when it is for a greater purpose. There are many forms of dishonesty, the term should fall under justice somewhere if there were a hierarchy of values. I like to bring up the act of omission with people who say they never lie or are adamantly against dishonesty. But, I still think it is not right to lie when it is not for a greater purpose.

I think this distinction is not fairly considered by anyone who thinks we should never lie. Anyone who thinks ALL dishonesty is fruit of the poisonous tree is wrong. They think that, if only, everyone would be honest with each other, then there would never be the need to be dishonest. Even for a greater purpose, because you would only have to explain your actual intentions, especially if they are for a good purpose. But, since the world is flawed and we have bureaucracy, people circumvent the rules. And they do this because not everyone is honest or fair and sometimes there is no justice (standing up with inspirational tone in voice). It is only the people who can't control their use of lies who give it such a bad name.

[JesusSuperStars]

I'd like to focus on the dishonesty issue before I get involved with the others. I take a utilitarian stand, I think that dishonesty is alright only when it is for a greater purpose. There are many forms of dishonesty, the term should fall under justice somewhere if there were a hierarchy of values. I like to bring up the act of omission with people who say they never lie or are adamantly against dishonesty. But, I still think it is not right to lie when it is not for a greater purpose.

I think this distinction is not fairly considered by anyone who thinks we should never lie. Anyone who thinks ALL dishonesty is fruit of the poisonous tree is wrong. They think that, if only, everyone would be honest with each other, then there would never be the need to be dishonest. Even for a greater purpose, because you would only have to explain your actual intentions, especially if they are for a good purpose. But, since the world is flawed and we have bureaucracy, people circumvent the rules. And they do this because not everyone is honest or fair and sometimes there is no justice (standing up with inspirational tone in voice). It is only the people who can't control their use of lies who give it such a bad name.

I think that is very well put.

[AgentSH]

Although I agree with you on a practical level, alanv, I consider honesty and dishonesty to be ideals. So ideally, what's an example of when dishonesty can serve the greater good?

[MNiS]

I'd like to focus on the dishonesty issue before I get involved with the others. I take a utilitarian stand, I think that dishonesty is alright only when it is for a greater purpose. There are many forms of dishonesty, the term should fall under justice somewhere if there were a hierarchy of values. I like to bring up the act of omission with people who say they never lie or are adamantly against dishonesty. But, I still think it is not right to lie when it is not for a greater purpose.

I think this distinction is not fairly considered by anyone who thinks we should never lie. Anyone who thinks ALL dishonesty is fruit of the poisonous tree is wrong. They think that, if only, everyone would be honest with each other, then there would never be the need to be dishonest. Even for a greater purpose, because you would only have to explain your actual intentions, especially if they are for a good purpose. But, since the world is flawed and we have bureaucracy, people circumvent the rules. And they do this because not everyone is honest or fair and sometimes there is no justice (standing up with inspirational tone in voice). It is only the people who can't control their use of lies who give it such a bad name.

You've basically wrote in a very verbose way that there's a difference between a white lie and a bald faced lie. When I was younger I used to think lying wasn't a big deal at all if you could get away with it. Of course now that I'm older and more mature I know that to be exceedingly foolish.

I suppose I'm naive in a way, seeing how I usually trust people, but when I do catch someone in a lie or I find out they've made a fool out of me I have my ways of paying the party back.

[reyesaaronringo]

Although I agree with you on a practical level, alanv, I consider honesty and dishonesty to be ideals. So ideally, what's an example of when dishonesty can serve the greater good?

i've got a great one and its a story that i'll truncate.
it's about two guys in an ICU years ago before tv. they had nothing to entertain themselves with. what they would do is the guy who's bed was by the window would tell the other what was going on outside and the one by the hall would tell the other what was going on inside.

the guy by the hall got kind of jealous b/c the guy by the window had much better stories; it always seemed like there was something going on outside and not much going on inside.

the guy by the window died and as the help moved him out the guy by the hall asked to change beds. to his surprise he found that when he looked out the window all he saw was the roof of the adjacent building.

the guy by the window was lying the whole time about what he saw out the window but it was for the benefit of his companion.

lies are used a lot to enhance group cohesion reinforce relationships or simpy to entertain.

[AgentSH]

Not bad. I guess to put it broadly, all fiction could be defined as lies.

[murderegina]

You ENTP's love this stuff, dontcha. I was going to comment on this thread, then something stopped me.. it was INFP-ness whispering "don't do it, this is will lead to an instant headache."