[Psyphon]

You'll be wise to play the game you know and you "do" know yourself or you'd likely not have posed this question. As much as we'd like to think we could have a life like other normal people, it simply can't be unless we compromise some portion of ourselves. In doing that we are no longer us. If we stay ourselves and think it can work, well...guess what, and you know what I'm going to say...but for the sake of some younger ENTP's I'll say it aloud. The inevitable negative consequence to trusting it will be "different" this time is not that it results in any loss to us, although at first glance we "are" the the ones who lose as we can never enjoy the benefits of a lasting and fulfilling long term committed relationship. The real damage is done to the unsuspecting other that puts their trust in our good intentions. The most ironic and saddest part is that we actually convince ourselves as well, at least in the short term. I've had multiple marriages/relationships, too.

It's like listening to myself talk.

Isn't it funny how well we know how things work, and how well we can give advise, but how poorly we can follow that knowledge or good advise. I'ma keep looking back at this conversation to remind myself not to be an idiot and listen to my Fe talking when my Ne and Ti are both telling me something different (because I know damn well that my Ne and Ti are always right).

Odd how even the most unemotional of us can get messed up a bit when it comes to these types of games. I think it's the curiosity that does it. I'm kinda like "I know what's happening from an intellectual standpoint, but I wonder if I could actually learn how to play this game well enough to kick their asses ... of coarse I can, I can do anything. Let's give it a go". I'll admit I've gotten much better at it, but I always end up in the *face-palm* position. Truth is, as much as I'd love it to be different I'm a helluva sucker for those damn "F" types no matter how much I don't like them.



You're definitely right though. They are the ones who truly get hurt in the end. And we do convince ourselves that it'll all be different or alright. It seems that our honed skills with manipulation and rationalization are the easiest to impart on ourselves. It's prolly from years of overexposure through childhood and into the early 20's.

[Word Dispenser]

It's like listening to myself talk.

Isn't it funny how well we know how things work, and how well we can give advise, but how poorly we can follow that knowledge or good advise. I'ma keep looking back at this conversation to remind myself not to be an idiot and listen to my Fe talking when my Ne and Ti are both telling me something different (because I know damn well that my Ne and Ti are always right).

Odd how even the most unemotional of us can get messed up a bit when it comes to these types of games. I think it's the curiosity that does it. I'm kinda like "I know what's happening from an intellectual standpoint, but I wonder if I could actually learn how to play this game well enough to kick their asses ... of coarse I can, I can do anything. Let's give it a go". I'll admit I've gotten much better at it, but I always end up in the *face-palm* position. Truth is, as much as I'd love it to be different I'm a helluva sucker for those damn "F" types no matter how much I don't like them.

You're definitely right though. They are the ones who truly get hurt in the end. And we do convince ourselves that it'll all be different or alright. It seems that our honed skills with manipulation and rationalization are the easiest to impart on ourselves. It's prolly from years of overexposure through childhood and into the early 20's.

If you find somebody that you can actually grow with and, at the same time, manages to keep your feet on the ground... It's been working for me.

As long as you don't see yourself stagnating in the relationship -- And it really keeps you on your toes if you're almost completely opposite, despite the same drives and interests... Always have to learn to adapt to new things... And very slowly help them to adapt...

Well, I think I just got lucky. My experience is a one-in-a-billion exception. It's the absolute perfect dynamic for me.

As for emotional games, those are simply insane. There's no sense in it. My mother is the best at it that I've ever seen. She's so emotionally manipulative that she even does it to herself, and emotions her way out of her own lies. I've never met an equal, and I hope I never do. So, I've learned a lot from her, but I wouldn't dream of executing these tactics.

She finds out what drives and motivates, finds out your weaknesses, and crushes from the inside out. She knew exactly how to get under my skin and to the core, and hurt me in the deepest most resolute way.

Then she would fake being happy and nice, and do it all over again.

It's a nice way of learning. :)

It may seem that you can't fall for a trick like that more than once, but she switches it up a lot. Adapting to the crazy-insane is quite the endeavour.

[Psyphon]

@Word Dispenser I've been married 3 times and am in the process of my third divorce. Trust me, I've fallen for the same trick more than once :). Problem is that almost every time I'm inside of myself going "you know this is a trap right? Why are you falling for it? This will be the exact coarse of events. Don't be a moron" .... and then I walk into it anyway :P. Damn feelers.

[Word Dispenser]

@Word Dispenser I've been married 3 times and am in the process of my third divorce. Trust me, I've fallen for the same trick more than once :). Problem is that almost every time I'm inside of myself going "you know this is a trap right? Why are you falling for it? This will be the exact coarse of events. Don't be a moron" .... and then I walk into it anyway :P. Damn feelers.

I know exactly what you mean. Bah! You know what they say. Can't live with 'em... Can consider fascinating assassination methods.

[gingertonic]

I'm always told that I should stop analyzing my relationships and just go with what I feel, yet the people who give me that advice consistently get screwed over by emotionally-charged breakups...

[Word Dispenser]

I really love being the way I am, but sometimes I feel like I'm a burden to people close to me.

Because of my inherent nature, I let them down. I'm accused of being a careless, thoughtless, ne'er do well. I just live in my learning-fix-wonder-world, and don't seem to care about anyone else, even if I do.

It's generally menial tasks and chores that I can't seem to be consistent with. I think I do a fairly average, good job. People become so emotional over things.

Why does it need to be done right away? Why can't I just do half now, and half later on, when I've a mind for it? Or jump between activities? They want it done quick, and altogether, but I just want to split up my tasks between many, and jump around, because that's what I'm comfortable with.

But, I'm not even given a chance to try it my way, before it's claimed that it simply won't work, and that I will fail (Won't finish.). It just makes me want to show them even more, but even if I prove myself right, or the idea that I'll prove myself right, they get angry. I don't get it.

Sometimes, this makes me think about maintaining a professional distance from people, and to never get into a situation where I have to be responsible for anything but me and the choices I make towards my goals.

But, I never think seriously about this for long.

[entpIdeas]

I really love being the way I am, but sometimes I feel like I'm a burden to people close to me.

Because of my inherent nature, I let them down. I'm accused of being a careless, thoughtless, ne'er do well. I just live in my learning-fix-wonder-world, and don't seem to care about anyone else, even if I do.

It's generally menial tasks and chores that I can't seem to be consistent with. I think I do a fairly average, good job. People become so emotional over things.

Why does it need to be done right away? Why can't I just do half now, and half later on, when I've a mind for it? Or jump between activities? They want it done quick, and altogether, but I just want to split up my tasks between many, and jump around, because that's what I'm comfortable with.

But, I'm not even given a chance to try it my way, before it's claimed that it simply won't work, and that I will fail (Won't finish.). It just makes me want to show them even more, but even if I prove myself right, or the idea that I'll prove myself right, they get angry. I don't get it.

Sometimes, this makes me think about maintaining a professional distance from people, and to never get into a situation where I have to be responsible for anything but me and the choices I make towards my goals.

But, I never think seriously about this for long.

i am like this too,and I struggle with it. I find it difficult to commit to many things as a result of my "this" aspect of my nature. I can follow through when I choose, but it requires so much emotional effort, and so much personal sacrifice, that I now limit commitment to my work and family. That has become a completely absorbing effort in and of itself.

[entpIdeas]

It's like listening to myself talk.

Isn't it funny how well we know how things work, and how well we can give advise, but how poorly we can follow that knowledge or good advise. I'ma keep looking back at this conversation to remind myself not to be an idiot and listen to my Fe talking when my Ne and Ti are both telling me something different (because I know damn well that my Ne and Ti are always right).

Odd how even the most unemotional of us can get messed up a bit when it comes to these types of games. I think it's the curiosity that does it. I'm kinda like "I know what's happening from an intellectual standpoint, but I wonder if I could actually learn how to play this game well enough to kick their asses ... of coarse I can, I can do anything. Let's give it a go". I'll admit I've gotten much better at it, but I always end up in the *face-palm* position. Truth is, as much as I'd love it to be different I'm a helluva sucker for those damn "F" types no matter how much I don't like them.

You're definitely right though. They are the ones who truly get hurt in the end. And we do convince ourselves that it'll all be different or alright. It seems that our honed skills with manipulation and rationalization are the easiest to impart on ourselves. It's prolly from years of overexposure through childhood and into the early 20's.

I keep looking back at this too. I remind myself every single day that life can be no different for me than it is. The reason is eloquently expressed in these few paragraphs. For me there was one critical juncture in my life that left just exactly enough residual ache to keep me from ever being truly content again, but not enough to prevent me from living. It is the most subtle kind of torture, slow and cruel but with this philosophy as a daily dose of medication, it is the type of reminder that makes life manageable.
@wordispenser is the one that flew over the cuckoo's nest. Lucky.

[Word Dispenser]

I keep looking back at this too. I remind myself every single day that life can be no different for me than it is. The reason is eloquently expressed in these few paragraphs. For me there was one critical juncture in my life that left just exactly enough residual ache to keep me from ever being truly content again, but not enough to prevent me from living. It is the most subtle kind of torture, slow and cruel but with this philosophy as a daily dose of medication, it is the type of reminder that makes life manageable.
@wordispenser is the one that flew over the cuckoo's nest. Lucky.

Hmm? Are you saying I'm crazy, or that I'm awesome, or both?

[Yomotsu Risouka]

Hmm? Are you saying I'm crazy, or that I'm awesome, or both?

Question: Would "both" be "crazy and awesome" or "crazy awesome"?