[Antares]

Where do you live? Where I am, such questions are illegal and decisions based on such information are chargeable offences, if they can be proven. It's straight up sexist.

Edit: I've also heard of some studies done that show many women not getting promoted due to not fighting as much as most guys do. Don't make an FP call you passive.

Somewhere in Northern European countries that pretend to be progressive. It's not like I experience this solely on basis of my gender. My age is a large component, and my trade is 95% men. The last not a problem when it's men my age, does get a problem if they're over 45. It's not the worst either. I've been called by a CEO whose share holder was against me gaining the position I had to offer who told me: "Call this and this CEO, he doesn't have a problem with women". Even though I did call the guy, it didn't quite work out because he thought he had "more negotiation timeframe" then he really had. I was near signging my current contract. In the end, the way that job opportunity was offered to me did not fill me with joy either.

I don't believe its like that everywhere, but it exists. Mostly it's more indirect: "you're too soft" within 2 minutes of an interview when I've barely told them my name. Questioning how "I could roll with the big boys" without even having 1 question to answer in the vicinity to prove I'm indeed worthy. They made up their mind before I shaked hands but was pushed forward by singular people that saw something in me. I've known 4 years ago it's something additional I'd have to overcome. So be it, even though it's bitter.



Passivity is what I've always been pushed towards. Instead I just didn't make any "friends in the right places" by going my own way because I had very little choice... Or when there was not much I'd want to write on my resume: leave to another company before I was faced with the choice of going my own way or piss off the boss indefinitely with my so called "rebellious attitude" or "disobeying orders".I´ve never neglected my duties in job, but I´ve always tended to take on more.

[dagnytaggart]

To be totally frank and against the current here - it just sounds like you're giving the wrong impression. It sounds almost like you stomped on in, took a look at the work, rolled your eyes, sighed and had an "OH MUH GAWD. This shit's soooo easy, YAWN. I'm BORED." That would piss me off too. I'd be thinking, "Then STFU, GTFO and run your own company."

I realize that's not your intention, but these people don't know you, they're naturally going to be on guard. You're their competition, yet also you still have to work together. To be honest, the proper thing to do is to lay low for a while, just do your job, and try to get along with everyone. Only AFTER you've demonstrated an undeniable pattern of competence can you release your inner lion. Just don't barge on in and alienate yourself by acting like you own the place. Not only will this (1) kill off networking prospects, (2) make people less likely to help you out when you need it, (3) not incline people to support your ascent, it could easily (4) make your life hell with these comments, eating away at your motivation and (5) get them to get together behind you back to stick a long, rusty dagger deeply in your back.

Don't underestimate the level of influence others have on your lives. I don't care how stupid they are, they've still got major influence.

It's a stupid "rite of passage" as a newbie - being temporarily agreeable and almost "submissive", (I wouldn't say that though, do stand your ground, otherwise people will forevermore treat you accordingly), but it's just life - fighting it isn't going to stop it, it'll only hurt you.

It's totally temporary though, just grit your teeth (and tongue, so that you may swallow it)...stop being a weenie and be a weenie, for like two weeks! :)

After that, don't forget to release the lion, otherwise you're going to be overlooked for promotions etc if you don't fight the good fight! Run out into the battlefield, swords drawn!

Learned all this the hard way myself.

EDIT: And be careful about being overly sure of yourself. You're in a new environment, and there's no way you know 100% about everything, and while most people will pretty much be forgiven for mistakes, the arrogant ones won't. They'll be crucified, mocked and never listened to again. A little humility wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Monkey King]

Being bored =/= talentless. It's ultimately my downfall. Being able to do simple, mundane tasks is a reflection of your work ethics. Though, through my internship, I don't believe the simple tasks I've been given will make any difference in the outcome. Perhaps that's just me being naive or arrogant, but I find there is better ways to do things. It sucks when you have all kinds of responsibility but have no decision power. That's probably what grates me right now.

[Antares]

@dagnytaggart

Excellent response. You are wording exactly how people must feel. Only, the only one that knows what has been said and what has been done is me. I've made every effort to humble myself in the past few weeks and I get the heartwrenching feeling "it's still not enough". I've spent every living moment over the past 7 years trying to figure out how exactly I can make people feel comfortable around me without sinking into work I'm not interested in and never getting rid of it without excruciating effort. It has almost brought me to the brink of exhaustion / burnout trying to do it.

My entire initial post is purely a reflection of the enormous heap of frustration desperately trying to keep a lid on myself so I won't get myself into the situations you're describing. Believe me, I know what you're talking about. So, as it's expressed here it's definitely kept a lid on at the office. Again at the cost of my health and joy at what I'm doing.

However, there's a limit of how much I can bare to swallow or put on a happy poker face (an example):

When someone asks me "if I like a certain task", I'm not going to lie and say it's the greatest most fulfilling thing I ever did. I'll tell them "I see value in getting the task done, and that's why I will gladly do it, but prefer tasks that are more beginning-to-end responsibility." I think (perhaps naively) I can say this because just five minutes ago the same person explained to me "he prefers doing x or y task". When they ask me how I like working there in general I'm overflowing with enthusiasm of course; which has also occurred.

I'm also never exactly sure when it is that my work is standing out from the rest in the initial stages and that I should ease back. It says nothing about how intelligent the rest is, it only says a lot about my enthusiasm and speed in picking things up. So in my enthusiasm and passion for the content I do not notice that I'm supposed to be slower or act like I know less than I really do. It's hard for me to tell when it is my work reaches the offensive boundary as a newcomer because I can't see how other newcomers are progressing. Their progress is not visible to me.

All in all, I'll always be more careful starting someplace new but what I also learned the hard way is that fretting excessively over how to make others feel comfortable as a newcomer makes me feel depressed, uninspired, empty and less up to any job or task. It's not merely a question of trying to fit in, but it's also a question of trying to stay healthy and happy.

Most people already have an opinion of you even if you had virtually no speaking time based on your previous experience, the job title you own now, your age, your personal life and home circumstances (if they know it), and/or how you got into the company. Or even crazier and beyond your control: something that happened before you joined the company. When that opinion tends to be negative from the start, watch yourself run on empty trying to reverse or adjust to the group. You'll be slowly killing yourself off and that's something I can advise you as one of the things not to do. I've lived that nightmare and hopefully I won't be reliving it again.

[dagnytaggart]

@dagnytaggart

Excellent response. You are wording exactly how people must feel. Only, the only one that knows what has been said and what has been done is me. I've made every effort to humble myself in the past few weeks and I get the heartwrenching feeling "it's still not enough". I've spent every living moment over the past 7 years trying to figure out how exactly I can make people feel comfortable around me without sinking into work I'm not interested in and never getting rid of it without excruciating effort. It has almost brought me to the brink of exhaustion / burnout trying to do it.

My entire initial post is purely a reflection of the enormous heap of frustration desperately trying to keep a lid on myself so I won't get myself into the situations you're describing. Believe me, I know what you're talking about. So, as it's expressed here it's definitely kept a lid on at the office. Again at the cost of my health and joy at what I'm doing.

However, there's a limit of how much I can bare to swallow or put on a happy poker face (an example):

When someone asks me "if I like a certain task", I'm not going to lie and say it's the greatest most fulfilling thing I ever did. I'll tell them "I see value in getting the task done, and that's why I will gladly do it, but prefer tasks that are more beginning-to-end responsibility." I think (perhaps naively) I can say this because just five minutes ago the same person explained to me "he prefers doing x or y task". When they ask me how I like working there in general I'm overflowing with enthusiasm of course; which has also occurred.

I'm also never exactly sure when it is that my work is standing out from the rest in the initial stages and that I should ease back. It says nothing about how intelligent the rest is, it only says a lot about my enthusiasm and speed in picking things up. So in my enthusiasm and passion for the content I do not notice that I'm supposed to be slower or act like I know less than I really do. It's hard for me to tell when it is my work reaches the offensive boundary as a newcomer because I can't see how other newcomers are progressing. Their progress is not visible to me.

All in all, I'll always be more careful starting someplace new but what I also learned the hard way is that fretting excessively over how to make others feel comfortable as a newcomer makes me feel depressed, uninspired, empty and less up to any job or task. It's not merely a question of trying to fit in, but it's also a question of trying to stay healthy and happy.

Most people already have an opinion of you even if you had virtually no speaking time based on your previous experience, the job title you own now, your age, your personal life and home circumstances (if they know it), and/or how you got into the company. Or even crazier and beyond your control: something that happened before you joined the company. When that opinion tends to be negative from the start, watch yourself run on empty trying to reverse or adjust to the group. You'll be slowly killing yourself off and that's something I can advise you as one of the things not to do. I've lived that nightmare and hopefully I won't be reliving it again.

OK, it does seem more complex than I first thought. And it looks to me like you've paid your "humble dues", so this may simply be a dead-end job indeed. Assuming from the content of your posts, you're probably talented and accomplished, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find another job. But what kind of industry are you in that it's this insular and people know about your personal life? Hollywood? o_O

Regarding your response when asked about tasks, I'd be careful about modeling my behavior after others there. They've been there longer than you have, they're probably higher up on the informal "hierarchy" because of it, they've all bonded, so they're kind of allowed to be more upfront. Not you. You're under scrutiny as "the new invader". You're on watercooler "probation". You worded things just fine, but the only problem is that since you overheard the other guy, so too can he overhear you and your boss, and your boss knows it. So he's probably gotten his panties in a bunch multiple times when you complained about the tasks within earshot of others (which, of course, he'll take as an insult on his leadership, aka him. People take things personally).

I see what you mean though, it's ridiculous to have to repress your own potential/accomplishments/needs just because the group won't like it. Trust me, I'm a 21-year-old ESTJ, Fe-ing around is exceedingly painful for me, and I can practically quantify the dollar amount wasted due to dicking around with social niceties and beating around the bush. It's one of those necessary evils, though. Like prostate exams. (Though some men actually do get off of it...not sure it's correlated to Fe though).

[Antares]

OK, it does seem more complex than I first thought. And it looks to me like you've paid your "humble dues", so this may simply be a dead-end job indeed. Assuming from the content of your posts, you're probably talented and accomplished, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find another job. But what kind of industry are you in that it's this insular and people know about your personal life? Hollywood? o_O

Regarding your response when asked about tasks, I'd be careful about modeling my behavior after others there. They've been there longer than you have, they're probably higher up on the informal "hierarchy" because of it, they've all bonded, so they're kind of allowed to be more upfront. Not you. You're under scrutiny as "the new invader". You're on watercooler "probation". You worded things just fine, but the only problem is that since you overheard the other guy, so too can he overhear you and your boss, and your boss knows it. So he's probably gotten his panties in a bunch multiple times when you complained about the tasks within earshot of others (which, of course, he'll take as an insult on his leadership, aka him. People take things personally).

I see what you mean though, it's ridiculous to have to repress your own potential/accomplishments/needs just because the group won't like it. Trust me, I'm a 21-year-old ESTJ, Fe-ing around is exceedingly painful for me, and I can practically quantify the dollar amount wasted due to dicking around with social niceties and beating around the bush. It's one of those necessary evils, though. Like prostate exams. (Though some men actually do get off of it...not sure it's correlated to Fe though).

It certainly won't be my last employer, but I'm trying as best as I can to get something useful out of it; experience wise and for the resume. I studied Information Management, sort of business economics with a sincere IT component. It doesn't teach you "how to be a programmer" but how to advise, how to construct and apply information strategy and policy into an organisation. Yeah, lone wolves that are the chicks in the information sector.

However, often times, I keep being pushed back into more technical functions. Simply, because they saw I did not have two left hands when solving problems of technical nature. I actually got the advice: "pretend you don't know it" in the past. It's just not my style to hide what I know. Hell, if I had to do that in addition to 'hiding who I am' I'd truly be lost. It's paradoxical: don't show you know what goes down in the operational level: they don't take you seriously. Pretend you will have nothing to do with it and seem to not care: they don't take you seriously (asif being incapable).

In the end in that type of [technical] function I tend to start dominating everything from the infrastructure to the strategic plans for the coming 5 years. It's bad for the cholesterol level of my bosses I admit. I hope that with the coming of my years, I can start to do what I'm originally trained for. In this small company I work in now, I finally got to start on that level. My education is a "problem factor" too when it comes to being accepted at the negotiation table without age or experience.

xD People know about my personal life, because covering up I'm still single at 29 is more tiresome for me. I work at a small company, people know a lot about each other because you can't hide. Even though I used to work with older people, my age group is usually dating, engaged or married. Anything else usually is placed in the "gosh, there must be something weird about that" department. I'm never sure if it works for me or against me that I don't have a husband or planning kids.

As for the person we're talking about, he's my teamlead (I'm the only one in his team). lol. So in a sense it's good for him to properly understand me as a human being, but it's sort of weird too. That's what you get with small companies. All of us (not only me) feel bare-bottomed too much in the beginning. I don't think you have the same severity of anguish and personal exposure when you start a new job at large corporations. It's easier "to keep it on the surface" nor does anything about you matter a whole lot. It has it's pros and cons. Remains to be said: I'm someone you learn to appreciate, I'm not someone that makes the best possible impression from the first minute. I don't even have to say something, I just have the face for that alone. *a stern stoic one*.

For someone that's 21, you have a level of maturity you should be proud of and one I've rarely seen. Hats off to you. I'd hit on you if I wouldn't feel sorta embarrassed of doing so:P lol. When I'm 30 in a few months I will just have no shame xDD.