[Nighty88]

Sounds exactly like me. I think my friend though, who's a certified ISTP, tries to look for shortcuts and thinks she can just "wing it". She also doesn't think that she's capable of achieving much anyway, even if she wanted to.

How do you avoid that? Or are you born with it, like you're born with drive?



Do you think your drive is genetic? Because neither of my parents were very ambitious, so I don't know if it's a recessive gene or what.

How do you avoid that? Or are you born with it, like you're born with drive?

Well, she is an artisan. She likes freedom and needs to go with the flow. I have an ISTP friend too and she seeks advice, but only to some friends in her inner circle. I am in her inner circle, I like to think, because she askes me for advice a lot. Anyway, for an artisan you have to let her take her own responsibility and ask her a lot of questions. If you want to give her a hint without taking away her own responibility over her freedom, make up a small story of you giving advice to another person with the same problem your ISTP has. This is a little thing I learned.

Do you think your drive is genetic?
Hard to say without proof.
My opinion is that this is a ongoing debate about nurture vs nature. I think both are important. And if you ask me, my drive is nature and nurture: My mother wanted to give her children a better future and she always 'pushed' us to our limit. A nuance is that this has always taken within ethical boundary and we were given our own choices. But when we did make one, she did remind us always that we needed to strive for it. This situation was a bases for my strong personality and I use personality in the context of an ENTJ global patern of behaviour.
Result: I am an university student and have had great achievements in my sports career. Now I am in my coaching career and I still use this universal choice making and striving thing everywhere in what I do.

Cheers

[Nighty88]

Am not seeking advice, just have some questions i'm curious about...

What does integrity mean to you?
That behavior is consistent with promises and speeches. That behavior is within the norms and values, which are debated and agreed on in the organisation or group of people.

My values and norms are:
Honesty, consistency, humbleness, respect.

You could say that: 'Threat another the same as you would like to be threated.' is my ultimate norm.

What gives you confidence in your own ideas?

Well, my own ideas are based on critical knowledge (hermeneutic and empirical analytical) and tried and perfected in real life. In everything I do I search to perfect my algorithm. It's my life.
You say we may have confidence in our own ideas. Hell yeah, I need to believe my build algorithm is the best to rely on or I do not have anything to rely on in my life. In short, ENTJ's need to have confidence in our own ideas because it is our life we speak off.

How do you keep going when plans fail and your motivation is very low?

This is a nice one :D We all have a low motivation and failing plans. We do not care, we even like this. Why? We have new things to analyze and to perfect. It is the way we role. And let me ask you this: what is the purpose of giving up and whining in a corner because motivation is low and plans fail? E.a. what do you achieve with that?

How do you seek to develop as a person?

In interacting with my environment. Adapting and perfecting an algorithm for every situation. Down to earth, I learn a lot from this forum and how people react under stress.

Maybe you want to help: Love is one big mystery for me that I want to unravel in context of my own. The question I was asked yesterday by a very nice girl in context to interact with another girl: Why are you not reacting to her eye contact? Well, the very answer I have now is: I do not feel anything for her, it will only be meaningless interaction of any kind, as I do not care for her (e.a. I do not feel anything for her). This is stupid, because when I feel love, I do not control anything anymore. Hell I would give my life for my girl when I feel that. It is the ultimate feeling of 'empowerment' (e.a. you could handle the world!). Blah, as ENTJ I find it hard to discuss this... maybe just ignore this brainfart of an last paragraph =)

cheers

[Monkey King]

@Mojo Jojo

How do you have so much self-discipline?

I don't think this is necessarily born in them, I don't think. I've always thought this was because of my upbringing. But now that I think about it---- nope. Mom was basically in nursing school when I was 2-6ish years old. (Yeh, I still remember some memories) A lot of my art skills were self-taught. I observed my aunt working on her models for architecture school and I was super excited about how she mapped out an entire layout in 3D.

I think the self-discipline comes first from curiousity, finding an example of "perfect," then getting to that vision of perfection. But then when something more "perfect" is found; well let's just say the bar just got higher. If the bar is higher then I find out how to reach that bar---either through more schooling or meeting the right kind of people to propell me to that bar. An urge to want to learn more about the subject keeps me going.

Anyway, I dropped architecture a year ago and decided on urban planning. I figured architecture is designing buildings but urban planning is designing cities! I decided on which field would have the greatest impact on society--- and I think in my niche of expertise, it's in urban planning.

Sounds exactly like me. I think my friend though, who's a certified ISTP, tries to look for shortcuts and thinks she can just "wing it". She also doesn't think that she's capable of achieving much anyway, even if she wanted to.

How do you avoid that? Or are you born with it, like you're born with drive?

Do you think your drive is genetic? Because neither of my parents were very ambitious, so I don't know if it's a recessive gene or what.

The only time I wing something is when I'm right in the moment. I don't understand how one can choose to wing something when so much time is given to plan. I like to create my path, not let the path create me.

When people think that they can't do much, there's really nothing anyone can do to help them get out of that thinking. It sounds like the whole Self-fulfilling prophecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Here's an example: I think a lot of the people who live in concentrated poverty is plagued by this thought and even though there are a lot of structural forces that impede self-sufficiency, I think there's a lot of ways to beat the system. Besides, the system has some rules, know the rules, and then play the game. Anyway, that's usually what comes to mind when I encounter people who talks as though they can't change their situation.

How do I avoid that?

It happens sometimes, but it's short-lived. I think about how far I've gone and to quit now is stupid. I think about how all the effor and resources were wasted. Like planning a construction project that took years and suddenly near execution date, I let everything fall a part.

For me the best way to avoid it is to blame failure on me. It's easy to blame the world and become content with one's position in life. It's hard to blame one's self and NOT change one's position in life. BAH! I realize this philosphy is hard to grasp for others.

I don't know if MBTI is genetic but my mom is an ESTJ and my dad is an ISTP. My mom simply taught me all the rules of this world and how she took control of her life through hard work lol. Dad left all disciplinary actions to my mom and was hardly involved in the weening unless it got out of control.

I think hard work is necessary but not the main ingredient in "success." Sometimes there are short-cuts but those short-cuts but it must be analyzed before taking it. Nothing worst than taking a short-cut only to make a U-turn because it was a dead end. ;P

[Junikname]

OK, mostly I lurk here but I’ll play your game.
I’ve been involved with this *#%& ENTJ for the past three and a half years. It’s never been an exclusive or committed relationship - we’re both older with grown children so there’s no looming desire to settle down or plan a future together. What it has been, though, is a consistent and durable relationship. I’ve seen him blow through dating any number of women and eventually they’re gone and I’m still around.
The truth is probably that I, as a cold-blooded INTP, am the only one willing to put up with the bastard for any length of time. And then there’s the fact that, as a socially oblivious INTP, the chance I’d ever leave my house and find someone else to hang with is slim to none, so I might as well enjoy this while I can.
However, the last five months or so have been wearing me slowly down. And it’s taken me a while to figure out exactly what I’ve been finding so irritable. It feels like he is so damn afraid of saying anything that might be remotely construed as affectionate, he’s going out of his way to be twice the ass he normally would be. Something is not “matching up” in his behavior and trying to figure out which way he’s going to jump next is simply exhausting. And in the end, I realize that I’m just not enjoying the time I spend with him.
So I texted him on Sunday and said I’m not happy with the way things are going and we should talk.
He responded (within a minute) that we should just take a break.
Okay. A break. Based on his past behavior, I have a hard believing he’ll want to stick to that but I guess anything is possible. And it has the advantage that I won’t find myself obligated to spend time in a situation I find increasingly unappealing. But it’s not really a solution, it’s a stop-gap.
Anyway, I am planning to stick to it. After three and half years, I think he needs to figure out what he wants and fish or cut bait.
Thoughts about what’s going on?

[Abraxas]

So, I'm at work the other day and my supervisor keeps coming by asking me how I'm doing. "I'm fine," I reply. I keep working. She's got this look on her face which tells me that she wasn't satisfied with my answer. "Sigh, guess I have to be a therapist for a bit," I think to myself. So, I turn it around and ask her if everything is okay. She tells me that I just look mad. I tell her that I'm not mad, I'm just serious about my work. But, then I ask if she thinks I am mad all the time and she tells me, yes. I realize that might be a problem.

She walks away after I assure her with a smile that I really am cool, I'm not mad about anything, which is true, I'm not. Now I'm thinking, "is this a problem? I don't really smile that much, I must admit. Maybe I need to start smiling a bit so people aren't put off. After all, why not smile if I'm not upset? It would probably help make things go smoothly around all the feelers I work with."

But, then the voice of reason switches gears on me like, "well, wait a second here. I know my store boss is an intellectual, and he doesn't give a shit. He seems to really like me. After all, we see eye-to-eye on just about everything, and he pretty much lets me run things my own way without any supervision. Maybe it doesn't matter if I smile."

Another switch, "but, on the other hand, if it helps everything to run smoothly and I really don't care either way, I guess there's no point in looking like I have a bad attitude. Everything I've read about body language and psychology does say that people in general react better to a smile than a frown. Fuck, I'm not trying to look anti-social."

I decide to work on this and start to think about how awesome I am, all the things that I've accomplished and experienced, how attractive I think that makes me, and how silly anyone would be to reject me as a potential ally, considering all my advantages and strengths. This makes me feel like a badass, and soon enough I'm smiling. The rest of the day goes by more efficiently than any day in a long while. More of my coworkers start talking to me who never approached me before. Seriously, it's almost amazing how persuasive a smile can be. I mean, holy shit. Really? That's all it took?

I think I'm on the right track about this issue, I'm just looking for some peer review. I mainly post this in case others have been in this same situation and needed assurance that they're not alone.

[Abraxas]

OK, mostly I lurk here but I’ll play your game.
I’ve been involved with this *#%& ENTJ for the past three and a half years. It’s never been an exclusive or committed relationship - we’re both older with grown children so there’s no looming desire to settle down or plan a future together. What it has been, though, is a consistent and durable relationship. I’ve seen him blow through dating any number of women and eventually they’re gone and I’m still around.
The truth is probably that I, as a cold-blooded INTP, am the only one willing to put up with the bastard for any length of time. And then there’s the fact that, as a socially oblivious INTP, the chance I’d ever leave my house and find someone else to hang with is slim to none, so I might as well enjoy this while I can.
However, the last five months or so have been wearing me slowly down. And it’s taken me a while to figure out exactly what I’ve been finding so irritable. It feels like he is so damn afraid of saying anything that might be remotely construed as affectionate, he’s going out of his way to be twice the ass he normally would be. Something is not “matching up” in his behavior and trying to figure out which way he’s going to jump next is simply exhausting. And in the end, I realize that I’m just not enjoying the time I spend with him.
So I texted him on Sunday and said I’m not happy with the way things are going and we should talk.
He responded (within a minute) that we should just take a break.
Okay. A break. Based on his past behavior, I have a hard believing he’ll want to stick to that but I guess anything is possible. And it has the advantage that I won’t find myself obligated to spend time in a situation I find increasingly unappealing. But it’s not really a solution, it’s a stop-gap.
Anyway, I am planning to stick to it. After three and half years, I think he needs to figure out what he wants and fish or cut bait.
Thoughts about what’s going on?

Sounds like neither of you are getting what you want from the relationship. Standing up to him is a good thing. At least you are addressing your needs. Let him try to solve things on his end his way, and if he can't, or you continue to feel put off, break up with him. No offence, but, fuck three years, or four years, or ten. It doesn't matter. Going down with a sinking ship is fucking stupid. You're better off breaking it off now so you're available in case someone else comes along.

[Monkey King]

@Junikname


I don't know exactly what's going on but when I retreat like that, it usually means:

1. I'm trying to figure out my emotions.
2. Reflecting on my life and what needs to be done to move forward.
3. All the above.

3 years is nothing when we're talking about number of years you're going to live: http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s0105.pdf What's more important is if you want to give more years away to this relationship.

If it doesn't work out take from the 3 years whatever lesson that you may use later. Whether it be how not to be or what you are and/or what needs changing.

Going down with a sinking ship is fucking stupid.

I'd like to comment on the above and quote One Republic's Marching On song: " I'd sink us to swim."


I was with someone for 7 years (high-school sweethearts). Swimming never felt sooooo goooood. ;P

[wiarumas]

I don't mind cupcakes as long as they are bite size and eaten on the spot. I don't like how icing gets on the top if they are in a plastic container. I'm a bit OCD with hand cleanliness as well. I really hate if icing gets on my face/nose/chin or I get messy hands. I've had a few cupcakes (especially in the DC area) that are the size of softballs which are extremely difficult to eat. Since its spherical, there is no good way to strategically eat them. While I'll never turn down a cupcake (or any type of cake or sweet), I have to admit its a bit of a love/hate relationship.

I'm also the type that uses a fork and knife on pizza - cut strategically around pepperonis. Its almost a game of triangles for me to cut pizza strategically (1 clean cut across, have pepperoni on every bite, has to be a normal size to bite, etc). I never really contributed it to being ENTJ - mostly an OCD thing (this is just the tip of the iceburg for me).

Moving on to the questions:

When you are interested in someone, how do you typically express yourself?

I'm actually pretty simple with this. I'll let you know who I am on a personal level and I want to know who you are on a personal level. I want to know who you are as a person - things you like, things you do, etc. I'm friendly and a bit flirty (more in a teasing way to be honest) - this is how I show that I'm interested. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so interested in personal matters nor would I feel comfortable teasing you.

Do you take the dominant role and approach the person?

Yes. I'll be pretty consistent in my pursuit especially after I get to know the person.

If you are physically attracted to the person, are you very forward in your physical interest?

Yes. As soon as the opportunity arises, I take it.

If you begin a relationship with a person that is very physical can the relationship mature into more of a connection or will it stay at only the physical level?

Depends. How interesting do I find this person? If this person wasn't interesting to begin with, I'm not magically going to become interested in them on a personal level. However, I can't say that I haven't changed my mind before if my first impression is wrong. Its a case by case basis.

[Monkey King]

@Abraxas

Smiling is to make myself approachable. I am told that my normal face looks like I'm mad. I am told when I am at rest (sitting down) I exude some sort of cockiness, bitchyness, and/or confidence. I asked what it was that signaled it and they said, it was my posture or just my overall vibe. I will admit I take these things as a compliment but I'd hate to deter potential contacts because of my demeanor.

I asked what changed their minds about my character and they said when they actually talked to me and thought I was the biggest dork ever. I'm a proud closet nerd, yehp! There you have it. But it's for a good cause---- The softer edge allows networking to be easier. The better your relationship with your collegues the easier it is to get good references.

[Dear Sigmund]

@Abraxas. Yes thats all it took. People often mistake our intensity for anger. Its the "dont get near me, I'm on a mission look"

You can prime the pot even further by bringing in donuts for the group. It'll demonstrate that you are a team player.