[Isaythings]

I'm 18 and work as a waiter at a small restaurant near my place. Just saving money to put myself through university nothing new there. My boss is a completely illogical and i'm out of ideas on how to deal with her. It might be worth it to note that she's only my boss because she's my other bosses wife, she only seems to enjoy the power she has when it comes time to telling others off. Without going into to much detail i was wondering if a more seasoned ENTJ could enlighten me on how to handle taking orders that make no sense without being able to even offer advice on how to make things more efficient. If anyone needs more information i'd be happy to supply it.

[fn0rd]

Here was the way I handled such trivialities, oh so long ago...

I had a small notepad... when they told me to do something:

1. I would write it down word for word
2. Repeat it to them (to ensure no misunderstanding)
3. Mark the date/time of said request.
4. I would then do it, exactly as they told me to in #1.
5. When it failed, and they got mad, I would read back to them, what they asked me to do.

It took exactly 2 times for them to get it through their thick fucking head that I wasn't an idiot and would continue to beat them at their own game. They left me alone after that.

[Isaythings]

That actually sounds like a really good idea and i'll definetly consider using it in the near future. My only concern is how to deal with the emotional outburst that is sure to follow when she realizes she has no idea what she's doing and needs to find someone to blame. Something like "if you knew it wasn't going to work why didn't you tell me in the first place" kind of nonsense even though i probably already tried to. Another thing is how would you deal with being told "go do something" as an order when there is no work to be done. I'll lay out the events of my shift today as an example:

get to work it's saturday on a long weekend so it's very slow during the day, handle the tables that come in and do some meaningless cleaning just to appear busy for as long as possible.

3:00 pm rolls around which is the time i'd leave at normally if it was slow as having a lot of people on and no work is financially taxing on this restuarant (note that is actually why i asked to leave, getting paid to stand around is fine with me at this point but I dont mind this womans husband and I dont mind helping him out in this way). I'm of course told no because it may be busy later on.

5:20 and still very slow except now the night staff has arrived meaning there is more money to be dispensed for still very little to no work. (note my shift officially ends at 5 and staying late is just something that has to happen to deal with rushes if neccessary which obviously wasn't the case). I ask again if i'm still needed and my boss (now very annoyed with me for some reason) asks in a snarky tone if I have somewhere to be because obviously my only incentive to want to leave work past my scheduled time has to be selfish and not the fact that her ignorance is costing her money.

6:15 some people have actually came and there was enough work for everyone to have at least something to do up until this point. After everyone is taken care of (note i've not only been handling all of my tables but also helping others with theirs if they were pre-occupied when dishes needed to be removed or whatever, not a really big deal just being a teamplayer and helping out) I go into the waitress/waiter station and stand still for quite literally less than 3 seconds. If pressed to count mississippi's you may have gotten to two if you were lucky) when i'm spotted not moving and yelled at being told to "do something". This was quickly followed by my boss telling the head cook to tell me to clean the bathrooms (end of day duty supposedly I had to do it as a punishment?) and go home as I was being useless).

Now in this specific scenario I realized my help wasn't needed for over 3 hours, one of which was after my scheduled hours and twice mentioned this to my boss before i was finally scolded for the issue and sent home. I don't know what I could have done differently to placate her as I literally said straight to her face "It's pretty slow and there's nothing to do, do you still need me?" and when she finally realized on her own that I had nothing to do somehow it was my fault.

Interesting side note the headcook told me she said something along the lines of "He did nothing all day with pay and is still being useless" as if it's my fault that the restuarant had very little business.

Being persecuted for things I have no control over is very irritating and if the money wasn't so good i'd find another job asap but until I can find something with equivalent pay or until i get fired which isn't to unlikely at this point I need to manage. If anyone has any advice on what I could have done differently please share.

Sorry for such a long post

[dude10000]

Isaythings, is this your first job?

[fn0rd]

That actually sounds like a really good idea and i'll definetly consider using it in the near future. My only concern is how to deal with the emotional outburst that is sure to follow when she realizes she has no idea what she's doing and needs to find someone to blame. Something like "if you knew it wasn't going to work why didn't you tell me in the first place" kind of nonsense even though i probably already tried to. Another thing is how would you deal with being told "go do something" as an order when there is no work to be done. I'll lay out the events of my shift today as an example:

I can, once again, tell you how I handled it, but YMMV. They did, in fact, get very upset with me for making them look foolish, so I made a statement and suggestion along the lines of (hard to recall from memory from so long ago) "I'm certain that you decided to hire me for being more than just a body to work in your establishment. I can be instructed on what to do, or how to do it, but not both. If you'd care to empower me, and choose the former, I will use all of my resourcefulness to ensure that the work is done properly in a manner that meets or exceeds your expectations. If you choose the latter, of telling me how to do it, I am not the right person for the job."

They were shocked that I would be so direct with them, but also being a businessman, he respected my viewpoint and actually knew that I was right since he had hired me away from a competitor based on my reputation of being a "doer" and only needing general direction on what was to be done.

get to work it's saturday on a long weekend so it's very slow during the day, handle the tables that come in and do some meaningless cleaning just to appear busy for as long as possible.

3:00 pm rolls around which is the time i'd leave at normally if it was slow as having a lot of people on and no work is financially taxing on this restuarant (note that is actually why i asked to leave, getting paid to stand around is fine with me at this point but I dont mind this womans husband and I dont mind helping him out in this way). I'm of course told no because it may be busy later on.

5:20 and still very slow except now the night staff has arrived meaning there is more money to be dispensed for still very little to no work. (note my shift officially ends at 5 and staying late is just something that has to happen to deal with rushes if neccessary which obviously wasn't the case). I ask again if i'm still needed and my boss (now very annoyed with me for some reason) asks in a snarky tone if I have somewhere to be because obviously my only incentive to want to leave work past my scheduled time has to be selfish and not the fact that her ignorance is costing her money.

6:15 some people have actually came and there was enough work for everyone to have at least something to do up until this point. After everyone is taken care of (note i've not only been handling all of my tables but also helping others with theirs if they were pre-occupied when dishes needed to be removed or whatever, not a really big deal just being a teamplayer and helping out) I go into the waitress/waiter station and stand still for quite literally less than 3 seconds. If pressed to count mississippi's you may have gotten to two if you were lucky) when i'm spotted not moving and yelled at being told to "do something". This was quickly followed by my boss telling the head cook to tell me to clean the bathrooms (end of day duty supposedly I had to do it as a punishment?) and go home as I was being useless).

Now in this specific scenario I realized my help wasn't needed for over 3 hours, one of which was after my scheduled hours and twice mentioned this to my boss before i was finally scolded for the issue and sent home. I don't know what I could have done differently to placate her as I literally said straight to her face "It's pretty slow and there's nothing to do, do you still need me?" and when she finally realized on her own that I had nothing to do somehow it was my fault.

Interesting side note the headcook told me she said something along the lines of "He did nothing all day with pay and is still being useless" as if it's my fault that the restuarant had very little business.

Being persecuted for things I have no control over is very irritating and if the money wasn't so good i'd find another job asap but until I can find something with equivalent pay or until i get fired which isn't to unlikely at this point I need to manage. If anyone has any advice on what I could have done differently please share.

Sorry for such a long post

You, and I hate to say it... work for an IDIOT manager. Anyone that essentially says "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean," is liable to get a good piece of my mind for being so utterly STUPID.

I will not stand for having my integrity or work ethic questioned, so if I had heard them say that, I certainly would have stood up for myself and explained in no uncertain terms that I, noticing how slow business was, had asked to go home on more than one occasion for the very reason to save the company money, but was told to stay on the clock.

Further, I would have explained that I understand their frustration with business being slow, but it's neither fair, nor professional, to take it out on the employees. Complaints go UP the chain... never down.

I don't know your type, but I suspect if it was me, I'd actually learn about the business, what steps they currently employ to attract customers and see if I could come up with ideas to spur business and suggest to them. For example, if you're in a strip mall or something of the sort, suggest a one-night only promotion where you could have designed and printed flyers for a % off the bill or a free adult beverage/dessert and walked around the front and passed them out to potential customers.

[fn0rd]

Also, from what you described... it totally reminded me of this... starting at 1:02

[Miss Scarlet]

Here was the way I handled such trivialities, oh so long ago...

I had a small notepad... when they told me to do something:

1. I would write it down word for word
2. Repeat it to them (to ensure no misunderstanding)
3. Mark the date/time of said request.
4. I would then do it, exactly as they told me to in #1.
5. When it failed, and they got mad, I would read back to them, what they asked me to do.

It took exactly 2 times for them to get it through their thick fucking head that I wasn't an idiot and would continue to beat them at their own game. They left me alone after that.

That is a great idea! :D

[dude10000]

Anyone that essentially says "if you have time to lean, you have time to clean," is liable to get a good piece of my mind for being so utterly STUPID.

Completely agreed, which is why I asked if this was the first job of the person in question.

McDeath happened to be my first employer (I was 16 at the time), and they did a lot of the "time to lean, time to clean" bs and got away with it. The managers, if we can seriously call them that, were just low-pay losers on power trips, and the peons were mostly students innocent of what's normal in a workplace environment and what is not.

In a restaurant situation, even a small local restaurant, it is a bit over the top for those in a peon position to start offering different business models to their lowly superiors in a super-serious way, since such superiors may be seventeen year-olds or rotting trailer-trash working a dollar or two above the minimum wage. That said, in any company, learning how to say no to things without being insubordinate is an important social skill. Part of this involves pointing out alternatives-- e.g. the place is spotless, why not send me home? Part of this involves being friendly with our superiors--if a person is isolated, snarly, and passive-aggressive, then people will fuck with him because they don't like him. Yet, if an employee stands up for themselves in a confident way, projects confident body-language, and is generally well-liked, we discover there's more flexibility than what is usually assumed, even from intimidating people. I've learned that body-language is about 93% of this, and words are about 7%. (My numbers are arbitrary, but the principle holds.)

[Isaythings]

Thanks for all the respsones I really appreciate it. This actually isn't my first job, not even my first in the restaurant business. Although i've never heard the phrase "time to lean, time to clean" it has been a very common and annoying theme at all my jobs. This is however the first time i've encountered this kind of behaviour in a boss though and it is really frustrating. I did begin standing up for myself recently (about two weeks ago) and in that time it has been decided by my superiors that I have an "attitude" so I must be doing it wrong. My co-workers although for the most part are good people seem to have a lemming mentality when it comes to work. They do what is said when it's said and will either silently take the criticism that comes with any errors that were not their fault or suffer an increased workload rather than point out a flaw in the instructions. I did this for a while but I really couldn't take it anymore and I heard through the work grapevine that my "attitude" (which i believe is equivalent to self respect in this case) had led to early whisperings of a future firing. It seems all i can do is continue to try and reason with the unreasonable and in the meantime look for another job. My only regret is the pay as a waiter with tips is more than I can expect in another job but I really am tired of the food service business.

Btw Fn0rd I consistently type as an ENTJ (but only on the free online tests and i've heard they are not that accurate) that's why i posted in the ENTJ forum. Does anyone know a good job for a possible ENTJ student where innovation and self-direction is praised instead of punished?

[Peter]

I'm 18 and work as a waiter at a small restaurant near my place. Just saving money to put myself through university nothing new there. My boss is a completely illogical and i'm out of ideas on how to deal with her. It might be worth it to note that she's only my boss because she's my other bosses wife, she only seems to enjoy the power she has when it comes time to telling others off. Without going into to much detail i was wondering if a more seasoned ENTJ could enlighten me on how to handle taking orders that make no sense without being able to even offer advice on how to make things more efficient. If anyone needs more information i'd be happy to supply it.

Would do you think her MBTI type is? Once you know that, you can figure out why she behaves the way she does.

I'm an INTJ so my approach is different from an ENTJ. You ENTJ's like the confrontal approach more than an INTJ does. You guys love a good battle. But from what you wrote, I think all that you´re gonna achieve with that is getting fired. (perhaps that is the best solution so you can find yourself a better job.)

I liked the suggestion of writing down what she asked and when she complains reading it back to her. But I think that would work better in a bigger company when dealing with a manager. You´re dealing with the owners of a small business. They can fire you just like that. A manager in a bigger company can't.

Once you figured out her type, post it here. Then it's easier to come up with suggestions on how to deal with it.