[ENTJ] ENTJ's, Cynicism, and Conspiracy Theories - Page 2

ENTJ's, Cynicism, and Conspiracy Theories

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This is a discussion on ENTJ's, Cynicism, and Conspiracy Theories within the ENTJ Forum - The Executives forums, part of the NT's Temperament Forum- The Intellects category; Originally Posted by Soured Lie I guess I would be a subscriber of this idea after looking it up. If ...

  1. #11
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Quote Originally Posted by Soured Lie View Post
    I guess I would be a subscriber of this idea after looking it up. If it takes a lot of impractical convolution and circumvention of direct understanding, it's probably not relative, and the simplest direct solution should be considered. And that would be my issue with conspiracy. People who are into them take all the fluff and attribute it as the central evidence for a case without direct correlation.
    I keep a list of criteria for an idea to be accepted, such as it having to be falsifiable, not relying on ad hoc or other logical fallacies to present a compelling narrative, being consistent with data, not confusing correlation with causality, not requiring leaps of logic or subjective interpretation or a specific mindset among other things.

    I think a 2 step approach is the best one. When I research something, I research it intensely and thus invest units of time in it. If I can eliminate most of the inane things in step 1, then I can discard the "theory" without having to enter the research phase, which saves time.
    -Halo- and Chaerephon thanked this post.

  2. #12
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Quote Originally Posted by Tea Path View Post
    even then, correlation does not equal causation.
    Exactly. It just means "similar".
    Last edited by -Halo-; 05-02-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #13

    For me it is basically true or not, so I could be called cynical sometimes. I am definitely known to use the phrase, "well this may sound bad but..." I'm not trying to be cynical and I don't want things to turn out bad. I actually point out bad things either so we can fix them or can adjust other things to make it not as bad.

  4. #14


    So until falsified or confirmed you consider it...

  5. #15
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Quote Originally Posted by RobynC View Post

    So until falsified or confirmed you consider it...
    I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I wanted to answer:

    I would just call it conjecture or hypothesis that either makes sense or doesn't according to my understanding of the subject until confirmed or falsified, it goes in the trash as far as it being called a theory. Conspiracy theory =/= theory in my books. Often times when speaking of conspiracy theory in past tense, the word "theory" is dropped if proven to be true and simply spoken of as a conspiracy. This is not the case with other theories (especially of the scientific or political nature). Something can be very factual and still need a theory to explain it, but unlike scientific theory the difference in nature is present past and so on, as with conspiracy I would find it hard to gather testable empirical evidence that can be confirmed over and over.

    Really it should be called conspiracy conjecture when it comes to history and ongoing events that happen once with no observers or just third party say so. You can't objectively confirm what only one person has seen without the concrete in your hands evidence, anything else is just implication and all you have to count on is the "credibility" of a person's word. Even then, the isolation of one event with concrete evidence does not do anything for a case as far as tying things together unless you have evidence of the actual event that the conspiracy is alluding to. The law might take a something like confession as evident to close a case, but this doesn't do the trick factually.
    Last edited by -Halo-; 05-02-2013 at 10:36 PM.

  6. #16
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Quote Originally Posted by RobynC View Post

    So until falsified or confirmed you consider it...
    No, when its confirmed, I consider it. When falsified, I throw It away. Every theory has its limitations.

    Generally, I throw them away, because of the big assumptions linking facts together.
    Apdenoatis thanked this post.

  7. #17
    ENTJ - The Executives

    To second what Soured Lie said, theory in scientific applications is a hypothesis (idea) that has been found to be anywhere from 95 to 99% of the time repeatable by repeat experimentation. Theory has unfortunately been co-opted to mean cockamaney idea.
    SirDave thanked this post.

  8. #18
    ENTJ - The Executives

    Joke intended

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  9. #19
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers

    Quote Originally Posted by RobynC View Post
    How many ENTJ's are cynical and believe in conspiracy theories?[...]
    I think you rew the right connection; of that between CYNICISM and obsessiveness with imagined dark conspiracies - I won't show the usual disrespect for the term "theories," the purview of which isn't done justice by cynical paranoia, IMO.

    Instead I'll focus my comment on why CYNICISM, which lies at the crux of any explanation of the constant theorizing (there, I've done it!) about conspiracies spawned by dark forces, and why it is on the rise, not just with ENTJs (if that's the case) but with an entire generation; the TV generation, or most saliently, the Gen-X as the beginning of an age group susceptible to obsessive beliefs in conspiracies. I believe a bell curve would show them predominantly in the age group to 30-55 y.o.

    This is particularly the case with them as the first generation which was raised with TV as their baby sitter and too often as their only, and most loyal after-school-companion; I.E - the "latch-key-kids." They have been imbued with an unrealistic (and I'd say irrational) expectation about what is "possible" along with a lost sense of proportion without which rational judgement is first thing to be lost in the narrative of life that they believe they see operating around them.

    Add to this, that a person's historical perspective begins with the start of their own life span - for the Gen-X'rs the killing of JFK ,MLK, RFK, the moon landings, the Gulf of Tonkin Res., and others - and the ubiquitousness of belief in conspiracies can be understood. I broached this in something I said in another thread which has relevance to the paranoid-conspiracy frame of mind that is so common nowadays; I said:

    " - I think this is a very significant comment, that the government isn't omnipotent. There is a lost generation that seems to have geared their consciousness to the pace things happen on TV, such that they can't imagine that the Tactical Air Command planes went looking for the hijacked planes out over the Atlantic, for a few vital moments at least.

    Or that there should be any hesitation to bring down a plane with 200 passengers on it when the [terrorist's] plans had disabled all identifying transmitters and they had become "invisible" to the ATC system, all while there were many thousands of planes in the air. Or that NORAD, a system that had largely stood down years before, and whose mission was to track attacks coming in over Canada from the Former Soviet Union couldn't have taken preemptive action, that it failed to do so.

    That a president attending an education event for grade school children in Florida would sit frozen in studied silence for three minutes - while waiting for the automobile convoy and security to be reset for a safe departure, because suddenly, and unexpectedly ... EVERYTHING ... had changed, and all certainty had vanished - that that president would sit there instead of leaping into some meaningful action, then only make a short statement and ask for a moment of silence. Or that his plane, Air-Force-One, could disappear over North America immediately after for hours, was suggested by some in the media, he was for some unimaginable reason, fleeing, hiding out, paralyzed above the clouds.

    So out of this framework of incredulity, because of those, and many other suspicious events - such as why were members of the family of the mastermind of the attack, the Bin Ladens, given the freedom to fly out of the country when all other planes were ordered to the ground with almost a million passengers grounded to the nearest airports and stranded for days... why shouldn't guilt by association implicate those closest to the terrorist's figurative leader?

    Hmm...many other absurdities would follow, like how could "THE DOTS" not have been CONNECTED and this not been stopped; how could this be allowed to happen?

    Many since, have not recovered their rational minds, and have fallen into the maw of CYNICiSM which can only be emeliorated by explanations of grand conspiracies, becoming a movement of "true believers" who have their growing priesthood and congregants, and to whom all others not as receptive of their beliefs, are just sheep, and unknowing tools of dark forces.

    Thus dawns the age of conspiracy. - "

    Link to he original post in context
    Apdenoatis thanked this post.

  10. #20
    ENTJ - The Executives

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