[gerardio]

Thinking in black and white allows less excuses for doing things. Gray shades are misleading and complicate matters more than need be. And yes, I like compromise so long as doesn't deviate too far away from the white.

I understand using that frame of mind if you're telling a friend to get off their ass, become more proactive and determined. What i'm concerned about is some ENTJs applying this frame of mind to EVERY situation. For example applying this business model like way of the thinking to complex social issues. You shouldn't always overlook shades of grey just because it impedes your desire for progress. This can lead to an oversimplified view of the world. It's necessary sometimes to atleast understand the irrational world of emotions.



I'm sure that you're a good friend haha, i don't think you're all bad people.

[wiarumas]

I understand using that frame of mind if you're telling a friend to get off their ass, become more proactive and determined. What i'm concerned about is some ENTJs applying this frame of mind to EVERY situation. For example applying this business model like way of the thinking to complex social issues. You shouldn't always overlook shades of grey just because it impedes your desire for progress. This can lead to an oversimplified view of the world. It's necessary sometimes to atleast understand the irrational world of emotions.

I'm sure that you're a good friend haha, i don't think you're all bad people.

The problem is that irrational emotions can only sympathized with (which does absolutely nothing).

For ENTJs, irrational emotions of others are solved by dealing with the source of the problem.

When people get emotional, I feel like a Dad whose daughter is afraid of the monsters in the closet. I don't know what to say to her to make her feel safe so the only way to fix the problem is to show her that there are no monsters in the closet. Problem solved - can you be happy/normal now?

What type of complex social issues can't be solved in a logical way? I'm sure every issue has a solution - the problem remains in the implementation of the solution.

[RamonV]

@wiarumas it's strange how sometimes people only want to be listened and not helped in order to solve their problems. It's hard to find something to say in such situations.

[gerardio]

The problem is that irrational emotions can only sympathized with (which does absolutely nothing).

For ENTJs, irrational emotions of others are solved by dealing with the source of the problem.

When people get emotional, I feel like a Dad whose daughter is afraid of the monsters in the closet. I don't know what to say to her to make her feel safe so the only way to fix the problem is to show her that there are no monsters in the closet. Problem solved - can you be happy/normal now?

What type of complex social issues can't be solved in a logical way? I'm sure every issue has a solution - the problem remains in the implementation of the solution.

What i was thinking is that i wouldn't want an ENTJ in charge of attaining peace in the arab-israeli conflict for example. Or trying to achieve racial harmony in a community where in the past, atrocities have been commited by one race over another.

But that's why everyone's different i guess. Different personalities are useful in different situations. You guys probably wouldn't want to see an INFJ in charge of a major corporation either.

[Abraxas]

What sometimes pisses me off about ENTJs is how quickly they externalize judgment before spending the necessary time to achieve a reasonable moral perspective on their own actions.

What adds more fuel to that fire is when ENTJs adopt a blatantly narcissistic attitude about what is essentially a ruthless Machiavellian morality of "the ends justify the means."

I am not against consequentialism in the most extreme way, if it has sufficient reason (even if I disagree with it). It is the narcissistic attitude and self-glorification because of your capacity to take on such a morality that offends me - not the morality itself.

However, all of this being said, I am not trying to generalize ENTJs, for what I have said applies to all the types. I mention it in this sub-forum because in my personal experience, it applies to ENTJs I have known the most out of the other types I have personally known.

[Nighty88]

What sometimes pisses me off about ENTJs is how quickly they externalize judgment before spending the necessary time to achieve a reasonable moral perspective on their own actions.

What adds more fuel to that fire is when ENTJs adopt a blatantly narcissistic attitude about what is essentially a ruthless Machiavellian morality of "the ends justify the means."

I am not against consequentialism in the most extreme way, if it has sufficient reason (even if I disagree with it). It is the narcissistic attitude and self-glorification because of your capacity to take on such a morality that offends me - not the morality itself.

However, all of this being said, I am not trying to generalize ENTJs, for what I have said applies to all the types. I mention it in this sub-forum because in my personal experience, it applies to ENTJs I have known the most out of the other types I have personally known.

This is being said to me more than once by an INTJ. I know I have to be somewhat intraspectational about my narcism. Most of the times it happens subconscious and I cannot prevent the reaction. Furthermore, I think INTJ 's feel the same way with every achievement. They only keep it for themselves. Is this true?

[Abraxas]

This is being said to me more than once by an INTJ. I know I have to be somewhat intraspectational about my narcism. Most of the times it happens subconscious and I cannot prevent the reaction. Furthermore, I think INTJ 's feel the same way with every achievement. They only keep it for themselves. Is this true?

A little narcissistic attitude is fine, but, there's a point where it looks suspiciously like over-compensation.

Personally, I acknowledge my achievements, but, you know how we INTJs are with emotions. People often tell me that I should take more pride in myself and show off a little bit. Of course, I don't really feel a need to. I'm on the other side of the fence when it comes to being blunt and decisive, otherwise I'd probably test as an ENTJ instead.

[Nighty88]

This is being said to me more than once by an INTJ. I know I have to be somewhat intraspectational about my narcism. Most of the times it happens subconscious and I cannot prevent the reaction. Furthermore, I think INTJ 's feel the same way with every achievement. They only keep it for themselves. Is this true?

A little narcissistic attitude is fine, but, there's a point where it looks suspiciously like over-compensation.

Personally, I acknowledge my achievements, but, you know how we INTJs are with emotions. People often tell me that I should take more pride in myself and show off a little bit. Of course, I don't really feel a need to. I'm on the other side of the fence when it comes to being blunt and decisive, otherwise I'd probably test as an ENTJ instead.

Interesting. Could you mention a situation or two where this fine line is crossed ? I find it difficult to recognize this line.

[Dear Sigmund]

"What i was thinking is that i wouldn't want an ENTJ in charge of attaining peace in the arab-israeli conflict for example"

I'm Arab-Israeli on my fathers side. I'll come up with a plan.

[Transcendence]

My best friend is an INTJ and she keeps calling me arrogant.
Well I think she's being too stuck up about it.

Like you @Abraxas