[n2freedom]

The root of the problem is not the behavior. The root is a distorted view of reality because you missed out on a specific aspect of it. This aspect is specific for each type. Every behavior of that type, good or bad stems from this delusion.

The real motivation is that everybody wants to be loved, to be counted, to be significant; basically to be human. But because of this distorted view of reality, they go about it the wrong way.

So this motivation is like the engine of the car and the distortion is like a dirty windshield. You keep driving forward but you keep running into hazards or avoid things that are not really there because you can't see clearly. When people ask you about your experience, you'd report that the landscape is full of holes or something's wrong with the tires. You'd try to fix the alignment or the transmission but what you really need to do is clean the windshield first.

So you drive around with this mucked up vision for so long, you develop certain adaption because of it. Let's say you have this giant spot on the right side of you windshield, every time the light changes, you see a big obstacle on your right and you make a drastic left turn to avoid it. When you first did it, you weren't very good, the car spun out of control or even crashed. After a while, you get better at it and can do it with relatively less turmoil. So your "strength" is making crazy left turns without flipping over and you're proud of it but the question is do you really need to do it in the first place? Just because you don't flip over, doesn't mean it doesn't cost you. It disrupts your direction, you forget where you were going, takes forever to get there and you constantly have to get new tires.

Still, the ability to make crazy left turns is not all "bad", it could be considered strength because there are times you have to do it, but only if the windshield is clear enough to see that there's a real obstacle and also clear enough that you steer in the right direction and not end up in a real ditch.

To recap, the spot on your windshield is the loss of a specific view of reality, the sensitivity to "holes" on the right side is your specific delusion, the tendency to make crazy left turns is you specific reaction/compulsion and the ability to make crazy left turns is your "strength."

If you were to approach this like a typical self-improvement book with "your strengths are... your weaknesses are..., you need to improve on...", it would go like this: your strength is the ability to make crazy left turns. It might even glorify it like: you're fantastically manuverable driver. And your weakness is your right front tire always blows out. From that description, there's no way for you to fix the problem correctly. What it should say is you have a giant spot on the right side of your windshield, "focus on the negative" and remove the disgusting bug carcasses and dirt so you can see clearly.

So there's really no good/bad dichotomy with behavior in the context of the enneagram. It's either you do something out of compulsions (caused by your distortion) or you do it because you really want to do it. That's real freedom.

This was very well said. I thoroughly enjoyed reading this post. Very thought provoking. Thanks for taking the time for creating this response.

[emerald sea]

it's realistic rather than idealistic. sometimes MBTI descriptions are really idealized to the degree of inaccuracy.

no one is perfect; every type has inherent vulnerabilities that they seek to overcome, and innate driving desires that they seek to obtain; there are various degrees of psychological health, that affect how our personality reflects itself...MBTI neglects these things, but enneagram theory defines them in detail.

cognitive functions are about how our brains naturally operate; and MBTI is about outward behaviors associated with usage of a certain set of cognitive functions, in a certain order of priority.

if you just want a functional understanding of personality, go for MBTI and cognitive functions...but you will find that a lot of the "pieces" you find in the world don't fit neatly into that puzzle. where things don't fit, more often than not, the answer is not in how the brain works, but in how internal desires and fears interplay to determine a person's choices and the face they show to the world. if you want to really understand the complexities of why people do that which MBTI cannot explain, you have to study enneagram theory...it fills in MBTI's blanks.

[dfoster]

This was very well said. I thoroughly enjoyed reading this post. Very thought provoking. Thanks for taking the time for creating this response.

Wow, thx. I didn't realize you read this post. It's good to look back and see what one wrote after a learning period. I got most of this from Almaas, great author.

[n2freedom]

Wow, thx. I didn't realize you read this post. It's good to look back and see what one wrote after a learning period. I got most of this from Almaas, great author.

Forgot how I stumbled across it. But, yes it was very thought provoking and I agree with you when it comes to distortions we definitely can erroneously attribute them as strengths in a good way. I was just thinking about this the other day as it relates to my fear of letting down my guard in romantic relationships and truly opening my heart and being vulnerable. Well, really tbh my issues with vulnerability period (now that I'm aware of it )....but anyway I've come to realize that the possibility of getting hurt, blindsided, deceived, yada, yada, yada is all a part of life.

And, it's no reflection on my strength or lack thereof when this happens. When people choose to behave in that manner and/or circumstances causes the pain and/or my very own thoughts about the situation causes the torment....it's not the end of the effing world and life will go on. The ironic part of it is all this time I thought I was in control and directing everything because of my little orchestrating when in actuality I've only been deceiving myself and perpetuating a never ending cycle of emptiness.

What I have conditioned myself to think makes me feel alive and/or in control really are the things that keep me imprisoned and the only being held hostage is me. This has been a rude, rude awakening for me. I have been so blind all these years to my side of the crazy equation. While in my quest to be free, I locked myself up in a prison. While in my quest to gird myself against rejections, I rejected myself. While trying to blame others and say they were the one who owned the problem, most of it was my subconscious manifesting in reality all the bullshit seeds I had planted in my own mind over and over and over again.

Yes, dfoster I really enjoyed your post and having been reminded by your thank you...I realize that I am trying to come to grips with myself and strip away all the ego and attempt to see who is the person behind the ego defenses. I get glimpses of her but hell it is hard to do in a world filled with so much fucking ego. But, I keep telling myself that true courage comes from an open loving heart that believes in the best in others, that believes in abundance, that can love beyond the ego defenses. I'm not there yet not even close but I am determined with each passing day to invest the time in me ...uprooting all those mind toxins, fertilizing my soil, planting new seeds, and awaiting a new harvest.

I truly appreciate this post and several of your other posts where you are constantly re-directing to the path of discovering one's true essence. Look forward to more of your posts.

[dfoster]

Forgot how I stumbled across it. But, yes it was very thought provoking and I agree with you when it comes to distortions we definitely can erroneously attribute them as strengths in a good way. I was just thinking about this the other day as it relates to my fear of letting down my guard in romantic relationships and truly opening my heart and being vulnerable. Well, really tbh my issues with vulnerability period (now that I'm aware of it )....but anyway I've come to realize that the possibility of getting hurt, blindsided, deceived, yada, yada, yada is all a part of life.

And, it's no reflection on my strength or lack thereof when this happens. When people choose to behave in that manner and/or circumstances causes the pain and/or my very own thoughts about the situation causes the torment....it's not the end of the effing world and life will go on. The ironic part of it is all this time I thought I was in control and directing everything because of my little orchestrating when in actuality I've only been deceiving myself and perpetuating a never ending cycle of emptiness.

What I have conditioned myself to think makes me feel alive and/or in control really are the things that keep me imprisoned and the only being held hostage is me. This has been a rude, rude awakening for me. I have been so blind all these years to my side of the crazy equation. While in my quest to be free, I locked myself up in a prison. While in my quest to gird myself against rejections, I rejected myself. While trying to blame others and say they were the one who owned the problem, most of it was my subconscious manifesting in reality all the bullshit seeds I had planted in my own mind over and over and over again.

Yes, dfoster I really enjoyed your post and having been reminded by your thank you...I realize that I am trying to come to grips with myself and strip away all the ego and attempt to see who is the person behind the ego defenses. I get glimpses of her but hell it is hard to do in a world filled with so much fucking ego. But, I keep telling myself that true courage comes from an open loving heart that believes in the best in others, that believes in abundance, that can love beyond the ego defenses. I'm not there yet not even close but I am determined with each passing day to invest the time in me ...uprooting all those mind toxins, fertilizing my soil, planting new seeds, and awaiting a new harvest.

I truly appreciate this post and several of your other posts where you are constantly re-directing to the path of discovering one's true essence. Look forward to more of your posts.

So awesome to read this. I have to say of all the people I've encountered on all forums, you're the one who's most sincere and genuine about finding her true herself.

It's the occasional glimpse of the soul that keeps me motivated. Yes, I have experienced it, unlike anything I can attain from my own effort. It's what's described as your Soul Child by Maitri. It's who you really are before the ego took over. Kathleen Hurley puts it best in "What's My Type?" about self remembering:

... to remember self is to forget who you think you are... making a conscious choice to recall that part of yourself that was created to be positive, understanding, loving, and free. It is the choice to remember, awaken, and reunite with the sleeping child, Real Beautiful Self.

According to Hurley, self-remembering, forgiveness and "Blessing of the Past" are essential to finding one's true self. I found this concept of Almaas particularly challenging: Everything happened EXACTLY the way it was supposed to. Ego striving and suffering come from us losing sight of this truth. Which means nothing you could have done from your own effort that could have changed it. It's the universe unfolding itself, you're just along for the ride. But once you see this, blessing of the past and forgiveness come much easier.

I also got glimpses of the real world, the world described by Almaas and Riso: everybody is hurting. Yes, it's hard to see it through them cursing you and plotting harms against you but the wounds are there.

I was locked into a heated argument with this vile, most unreasonable person. Then for a fraction of a second, probably even shorter than that, I couldsense the woundedness in his voice, almost like he was crying and pleading. But his words and gestures were anything but. So one part of me saw him wanting to fight, one part saw him crying at the same time. A younger version of me would have escalated it into a violent situation. After the incident was over, I was still in awe of what I saw. I had never seen that before. I believe it was a momentary break from the sleep state. I believe it was because I have learned of my distortion and delusion.

In order to relax our compulsions, we have to be able to trust. Trust in what? not in our ego but in Providence. Almaas drives home this point very well: "you just know in your bones that you will be OK"

If you don't have basic trust, you will react to what arises in accordance with your conditioning and will want your process to go one way or another. You won't let yourself be present; you'll be tense and contracted. So basic trust is needed for you to be able to allow the ego to die, and also for you to be willing to just be without reacting...

...you not only are willing to jump into the abyss, you not only are able to be with whatever arises, but you also trust that wherever things take you will be okay. This allows the natural unfoldment of your soul, opening to your inner nature.

Without basic trust, we don't have trust in our nature, our inner resources, and in the universe that gave birth to us and is constantly supporting us, constantly providing for us, and will continue to providing... Without that trust, we don't experience ourselves as children of the universe... We experience ourselves as abandoned, outcast, left on our own -- and not only on our own, but lacking and deficient in capacities... alone, isolated, separated,... unable.. So we live in a constant state of fear. This is the basic position of the ego

Lack of trust in Providence leads to fear, and as Riso stated, fear leads to our specific compulsions. I want to be constantly reminded of this at all time, it seems whatever bad situation I'm in, it has to with lack of trust that leads to fear. And this trust can only be restored by seeing that the universe is good. Not only reminded but I think we have to drive ourselves to find evidence of it day by day, moment by moment that it becomes a habit of thoughts and feelings.

So glad to be able to talk about this, thx :)

[Swordsman of Mana]

I just took a test for enneagram because I was interested in what it was all about.
I got a type 7w6 and as I was reading through the descriptions it just seemed so negative oriented. All of the types are described as having to deal with 1 or more negative emotions. Anyone else notice this or know why? Is it so we are aware of our weaknesses and can work to better ourselves?

if you think the description you read was negative, take a stab at Naranjo or Maitri. you'll probably get embarrassed or defensive just by reading them.
truth is, the enneagram goes beyond motivation. these are merely symptoms of one of the nine mental prisons people have trapped themselves in that have distorted their ego and view of reality. personally, I often refer to it as the "reality-bitch-slap-o-gram" as I feel that's a more accurate term.
I will add one caveat however. most enneagram theorists tend to paint the ego as a wholely negative phenomenon. personally, I see a healthy amount of ego as a source of fulfillment, motivation and personal flair is one has the ability to keep it in check and subservient to one's well being (let's face it, with no ego whatsoever, life would be pretty damn boring). Enneagram, in my opinion, is all about becoming aware of one's ego and learning to free one's self from it's grip (whether one views ego as a negative or a positive, being a slave to it unknowingly could never be a good thing)

[Swordsman of Mana]

That's a pretty bizzare, or at least unhelpful, system to create for typing people. That makes it sound like a set of neuroses with different people tending towards different clusters of them. That's not how I read Enneagrams at all. Each e-gram has different priorities, which can lead towards specific issues, but can also lead to a lot of good things.
On the topic of unhelpful, what's the use in designing a system to tell people all the different ways they can suck or be defective without giving them any ideas of the assets of their trends?
That would be like typing MBTI with all of the bad things like that my type is the 2nd least likely to finish post-high school education. We're also one of the most creative, observant, and likely to succeed as entrepreneurs.
Focusing on the bad is not a good thing for anyone.

because they ARE neuroses. that's why the title of Naranjo's book is called Character Neurosis. in a sense, it's really like a mental illness (a mental illness that has a few side effects, but a mental illness)

[William I am]

because they ARE neuroses. that's why the title of Naranjo's book is called Character Neurosis. in a sense, it's really like a mental illness (a mental illness that has a few side effects, but a mental illness)

I think defining "personalities" through mental illnesses encourages mental illness. It seems hypochondriac and sickly to take it seriously and to embrace a defect/deficit as an actual defining characteristic.
When your worst traits are part of your self-image, it makes self-improvement more difficult.

[Swordsman of Mana]

I think defining "personalities" through mental illnesses encourages mental illness. It seems hypochondriac and sickly to take it seriously and to embrace a defect/deficit as an actual defining characteristic.
When your worst traits are part of your self-image, it makes self-improvement more difficult.

they aren't "personalities" in the first place

[William I am]

Hence the quotes.... What would you call them?