[pinkrasputin]

Okay my situation (INTJ/ENFP)

NT pursues NF
NF is talking to like 12 other people/doesn't care
NT keeps coming back every so often, now NF is intrigued. The NT's dryness is sort of cute/puzzling to NF
NT/NF date
NT/NF have sex
NT/NF fall in love
NF starts seeing some things wrong in NT (he doesn't offer to pick her up when her car was in shop & there was that one time he got mad at her when she was late)
NF forgets NT's Birthday so NF breaks up with NT (Do I really need to explain this odd logic? Shame break up. lol)
NT thinks it's over and slams the door
NF wishes the NT understand that she is just fickle



How do you rectify this spiral? Start having a few relationships with STs, you'll be screaming for another NT in no time. And this time you'll fucking appreciate it. The Spiral will start looking like a joyful skip down the yellow brick road in comparison.

[Gina Alawaye]

This sounds like a relationship between 2 immature parties.

Not once in this "death cycle" did I see: “and they talk about it”. I think that if both the NT and the NF both honestly told each other how they feel, what they react that way, and what they can each do to make it better, then the relationship will be fine.

Personally, it takes years, tears, and many angry & painful moments for me to reach the end of stage 2 with another person (even another NT); I imagine that if I ever made it past stage 2 (assuming the smolders of attraction don't fizzle & die) our relationship would be pretty solid.

My issues arise when one tries stage 2, then I withdraw. Eventually the talking comes, but the withdrawing -- it's like a reflex.

[saibot]

I have not had this happen yet. I am pretty good at telling how emotionally needy a person is, so I can adapt my expectations quite well.

That being said, all the NTs (and STs) I have strong bonds with are friends, not lovers. I could see this happen if I was pursuing an NT romantically, but I think I would be able to keep it from going totally out of control.

[CodeGuru]

That being said, all the NTs (and STs) I have strong bonds with are friends

I'd like to emphasize this. I find myself in with very few, but very close friends. Once they're up on that pedestal they have my respect for their emotions- something I usually dismiss very easily. The key to solving problems between the types, I think, is communication. There is no such thing as being too frank. (Ex: Your attitude sucks, I feel lonely because ---) Our emotions won't get hurt if it's a problem that needs to be fixed with us. A lack of communication can tell us we're not even a person of worth. A beating-around-the-bush sort of deal can get nowhere, fast.

[KateMarie999]

I see this being a possibility but I think 2 mature people would talk about their feelings or their thoughts before it got to be that bad. I'm in a relationship with an ENTP and we're always telling each other how we feel or what we think and how we came to our conclusions. I'm really starting to understand how his mind works and I think (I hope) he's understanding how mine does. He actually found that Wiki article a few days ago and we discussed it.

Personally, I think communication is key. If you don't talk about what you think or how you feel, you're going to confuse the other person. I think the NT/NF problem is that they're so similar they start thinking the other person can read their mind. They can't. If an NT and an NF have the same worldview, similar interests, and healthy communication, I think they can avoid the death spiral without too much trouble.

[Alysaria]

I decided a long time ago that I'd rather be alone than pretend to be something I'm not for the sake of a relationship. If he wanted me to change, he's not worth the trouble....and if he would love me for who I am, then why should I act differently around him? I'll still adapt in terms of being supportive and a bit conciliating as long as it's not an important issue.

I believe strongly in letting potential mates have all the information before taking the step to date me. >.> I consider it a mid-step between friendship and active commitment, so there's a chance to back out. :P But then I don't really get interested in guys unless I've been friends with them for a couple of years...so there isn't an awkward first date where I'm dropping bombs on some poor unsuspecting guy I barely know.

Anyway, the spiral doesn't happen this way for me because I'm open on my end... What's happened to me is my INTJ ex pretended to be some romance novel archetype to appeal to me with all of these noble characteristics that he didn't actually possess. I became disillusioned as he slipped off the pedestal, tried to fix things, and then withdrew....only to be dragged back by emotional manipulation in a months-long guilt trip that was miserable and pretty much killed every feeling of affection I still had for him.

[Mango Kiwi]

I agree with the posters that maturity level is a huge factor here.

Also--- the "spiral" could surely be a common thing that happens- but I think it's over-dramatized with this white-paper- or whatever you want to call the death spiral write-up that circulates.

I think it could happen in subtle ways but not necessarily have to mean the death of the relationship. (Perhaps it can in some cases- but again- I think it would be more due to lack of communication / immaturity.)

[RoSoDude]

Though my relationship with an ENFP certainly began in the way that others have described (quite immediate mutual attraction and interest), I don't feel as if we have had the larger communication and personal issues that others have described. Though there clearly is a difference in how emotion affects us, I think we're both very aware of it and we aren't offended when the other doesn't act as we would. I am simply a less emotional person. She doesn't try to be different for me, nor do I try to be different for her (I just try to be the best version of me), and it works out fine. We just both have to be very conscious about it.

[Moby]

I'd agree with Naughy, but I'd take it one very bold step further: that at times, in certain situations the NF/NT dynamic mimics the emotional distress of abuse. I've had a lot of trouble with my NT friends and their biting comments which sometimes come off as insensitive (Ok, more than sometimes).

I feel I give so much, and they do at times, but it's the lack of a social filter, the correcting of my ENFP randomness (as if I should be expected to become a more rational character) when I do not expect the same (for an NT to become more emotional, for example). What I touched on there is probably the biggest sticking point of my personal experience with my many NT acquaintances and friends: They seem to harbor some innate quest to get me to be more logical, even if their incessant pleas have fallen on deaf ears for years. Where myself, unlike my personal NT friends, I am very comfortable to "live and let live" not try to convert them to "emotionality(?)" But to simply enjoy the natural chemistry and shared interests that forged that initial friendship.

Oh how I wish they could read what I just wrote.

[nreynolds1990]

I've also had the following:
1. NF likes NT and overflows with affection.
2. NT conveys that being so cuddly/verbally effusive/emotional is somehow "less than" acting rational, cool & collected, slightly detached
3. NF, in a desire to make object of attention happy, puts a lid on the Feeling-type behaviour and language, behaves in a more logical, almost-business-like manner
4. NT approves and finds self more & more at ease with this new, less-cozy iteration of the NF. Begins to warm up and think this person might have serious long-term romantic potential.
5. NF discovers that in the struggle to not express tender, sweet emotions, those tender, sweet emotions have died of asphyxiation. There is no love left... just a sort of numbness.
6. NF leaves, off to find someone who will enjoy being the object of goofy adoration, warm hugs and mediocre poetry.
7. NT, having finally opened heart, is crushed and wonders what could have possibly gone wrong. Shakes fist at sky and promises to never love again.

This makes no sense to me. I mean I wouldn't want someone going full blown "I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!!" and this is the first day I've met them. But I wouldn't want them to censor themselves either, if they make their intentions known I think I would be receptive to their antics if I liked them too. I just think if you can't accept someone for who they really are then you shouldn't be with them to begin with