[Kytaari]

I'm really sorry for this negative content, but I'm very curious to discuss it. I have a friend of mine who is an ISTP, and lately I just haven't been in the mood to call him. He's very critical sometimes, and although I admit I can be very foolish on occasion, I'm getting tired of it. I'm wondering if any other ENFPs have ever felt this same way. I know about socionics, and how its description of relationships are still contested within this community, but lately his abrasiveness has just been wearing on me. I think he's mostly a generous guy, but he isn't always very forgiving of my flaws. I think part of our problem may be he doesn't like my enneagram type, or something, because the problems he takes the least seriously are problems about my own identity.

I'm not writing this to diss ISTPs, but I'm just wondering if any other ENFPs find their abrasiveness kind of tiring after a while. I haven't talked to him about this yet, because I don't think I can convince him its a problem. All I know is that some of his criticisms bother me after a while, I start taking them personally, and right now I just feel like I need a break. Maybe this kind of "overload" is normal for just about any relationship, no matter the types?

I think part of the problem, though, is we may have reached a level in our relationship where I'm reluctant to get much closer. There are some issues of mine that I just don't feel very open to share, irrational fears and beliefs, that sort of thing. I usually have to steer the conversations, and lately the things that keep popping up in my mind are things I'm too afraid to talk about. So we spend minutes on the phone not talking about anything. I can't get the subjects out of my mind--I can't control my thoughts that well--so my instinct instead is to just bottle these disturbing emotions up, see if I can tackle them by myself. But then we're not even talking about anything, I can't tell him what's up because I'm feeling too uncomfortable; I can't start small-talk, because he detects it easily and hates it, and I can't make myself think of something else.

Maybe my problems stem a little deeper than what I initially posted about. He doesn't like listening to my uncertainties, but mainly when they keep swaying back and forth. His advice is always to just too things, and I'm sometimes very prone to second-thoughts. I usually talk to him every day, but lately I just don't know what to talk to him about. Maybe I just need to give this relationship a little break. Do you suppose that's the only real problem here?

[MuChApArAdOx]

I haven't met an ISTP i admired. And yes, they can be abrasive, mean and cocky. Personally i don't believe they can truly understand or relate to the needs of an ENFP. And to be frank, although i only know 1 ISTP IRL, she doesn't get along with anyone that i'm aware of. It's her way or the highway. She completely wears us down with her negative actions and behaviors. She doesn't know how to have fun, relax and just be chill. She doesn't know what it means to be a team player. She won't ever compromise in a group dynamic. She doesn't want to hear about her flaws, she's in complete denial. I can't speak for all ISTP as i only know 1 in reality, but from what i've seen here at PerC, the similarities are uncanny.

Keep in mind that ENFP don't share even 1 function with ISTP. This is why i'm not surprised that we see each other as aliens. If i made an effort i could probably get along with them somewhat, but honestly, they're just to draining for my liking, too needy with explanations in terms of understanding simple concepts in communication. I don't have the energy or time to put into something that will only reach a small result.

Sorry to hear about how he made you feel. I suppose it depends on how important the relationship is to you. Friendships shouldn't have to require so much work, it should flow naturally, with ease. You can only do so much, put in so much work, it either connects or it doesn't. Btw we gave her the boot and let her take that highway ;)

[Kytaari]

Thank you. A lot of what you said were some of the details I seemed to miss. I believe my friend is a healthy ISTP, but he still needs details for concepts that I'm not always in the mood to give, things like that. And what you said about finding it hard to relax with them sometimes always rang true with me. Sometimes I just feel like being frivolous, but he thinks my way of doing it is rather stupid.

I think I just need to give it a break. I'll talk to him when I feel like it.

[zadude]

I always get the feeling my business partner is an ISTP. We've had some major clashes in the past but created a level of understanding and now it's actually optimal - he sees what I don't and vice versa. I hate details, he loves them.

[MuChApArAdOx]

Thank you. A lot of what you said were some of the details I seemed to miss. I believe my friend is a healthy ISTP, but he still needs details for concepts that I'm not always in the mood to give, things like that. And what you said about finding it hard to relax with them sometimes always rang true with me. Sometimes I just feel like being frivolous, but he thinks my way of doing it is rather stupid.

I think I just need to give it a break. I'll talk to him when I feel like it.

Your way is not stupid. The reason he thinks this is due to his lack of understanding. In my experience, if they don't understand, the blame is passed on the person that's confusing them. They don't take responsibility for their own short comings, they would rather argue and try and make you feel bad/guilty/stupid .( that is their Fe at best ) remember we use Fi, so Fe will appear controlling and manipulating, something an ENFP won't tolerate ;)....its a good idea to give it a break. You may come to see that you're not missing all that BS. If people have to bring you down in order to build themselves up ( trying to make you feel stupid ) they're not a true friend. It's showing you their own insecurities and low self esteem. Hang with people who respect you, are willing to look past the differences and build you up to make you feel like the awesome person you are.:)

[saffron]

Personally, I'm quite fond of ISTPs. True, we don't share main functions, but we do generally share an independent nature and a desire to think outside of the mainstream box. Are they my go to people for emotional support? No. I've tried that with results heavily leaning towards crazy making for both of us. I've learned to rely on my close NF friends for processing through especially rough spots.

I think your idea of taking a break is probably a good one. No sense in forcing something. Try looking to some other people to meet these particular needs without running this friendship into the ground unnecessarily. People all have their various strengths and weaknesses.

With that said, I'm usually someone who first tries to diplomatically point out if someone is over stepping with criticism or unsolicited comments/advice. But if that doesn't work, I'll certainly make it clear in a more blunt sort of way. I've found that some ISTPs need an occasional blunt statement to really get that it's bothering you to the point that you aren't enjoying their company, and once they get that they usually take it in if they value the relationship. If they don't then why bother with it?

[MuChApArAdOx]

I always get the feeling my business partner is an ISTP. We've had some major clashes in the past but created a level of understanding and now it's actually optimal - he sees what I don't and vice versa. I hate details, he loves them.

The reason he loves details is because he needs them in order to go from A to B.. We hate them because we don't ;) A-Z....You get my drift grins*

[briesas]

Ditto @saffron. ISTP's are pretty live and let live, IMHO, and experience. Though - I can imagine he is very uncomfortable hearing about your 'uncertainties' as you say - they pretty much don't know what to do when presented with one's insecurities. If you're staight up with him about what's bothering you - put in as unemotional way as possible - I think you're likely to get the best respose. Has he said that 'your way of doing things is frivolous'? I think they can come off as being disapproving - but that's more like their unemotional surface being incorrectly interpreted by us. In the end, though, you need to do what you think best. A break is not likely a big deal to an ISTP, as far as I understand them. Good Luck!

[saffron]

The reason he loves details is because he needs them in order to go from A to B.. We hate them because we don't ;) A-Z....You get my drift grins*

Based on my experience, I don't think that's true. They focus on details that are relevant to them the same way we do, and can get from A-Z quickly in their own way. It may or may not look the same, but it's still Z. It's their Z though.

I also think you need to really get to know some ISTPs IRL to fully appreciate them. Not that they can't be a pain in the ass at times (as can we), but superficial judgement doesn't do them justice. And the forums don't give a full picture.

[Kytaari]

Ditto @saffron . ISTP's are pretty live and let live, IMHO, and experience. Though - I can imagine he is very uncomfortable hearing about your 'uncertainties' as you say - they pretty much don't know what to do when presented with one's insecurities. If you're staight up with him about what's bothering you - put in as unemotional way as possible - I think you're likely to get the best respose. Has he said that 'your way of doing things is frivolous'? I think they can come off as being disapproving - but that's more like their unemotional surface being incorrectly interpreted by us. In the end, though, you need to do what you think best. A break is not likely a big deal to an ISTP, as far as I understand them. Good Luck!

Yeah, this might have had something to do with it. Maybe I was looking for a more feeling response? He couldn't take my problems seriously, but now that I know that perhaps it has something to do with me projecting them to subjectively, I think I positively change this situation. Maybe I should try to just present my problems more like facts, instead of the more emotional tone I usually use. He doesn't seem to appreciate my concerns when I address them to him as feelings. I guess the "why" seems more relevant to him, though I never thought about that.

I'll try this with him next time, if I'm ever open to talking to him about any of those concerns. Still, I think it would be much easier relying on a more feeling type for my usual emotional support.