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ENFP guys=Automatic Friend Zone

[ENFP] 
27K views 124 replies 39 participants last post by  Mick Travis 
#1 ·
I saw this in another thread
http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/46220-male-enfps.html

I have gay male friends ( ENFP), they are the best of the best :)
Personally i'm not romantically attracted to male ENFP. I've never been romantically attached, probably because
we never left the friend zone.
And I know I get friendzoned 95% of the time so are all ENFP males basically auto friendzoned? well not Automatically but generally end up being Friendzoned?
And if this is so, what makes us so romantically unattractive?

The fact we seem so immature maybe?
Maybe also the fact that we may push too hard at the beginning i.e needy actions?

I ask since I know most ENFP guys have trouble with women, which i've talked about in other posts. I posted this to target that specific Idea.

So is this true and if so how do we get out/steer clear
 
#2 ·
I explained this to someone yesterday.

There are 2 sides to me. One is my surface personality and one is my deep personality. Depending on which one I let out, I am friend zoned or I hook up. My surface personality is very controlled... almost like a game where I'm the puppeteer controlling everyone's movements etc. It's very confident and sexual - I like to pretend I'm a rockstar and just go around walking like that, just to up the whole game I will vibe off a very care free attitude with lazy eyes and the works. I only learned how to do that in recent years though and it seems to work, it just fucking sucks and it's sort of destructive as I'll do a lot of drugs during that time because of how disconnected I feel.

I decided to clean my act up 8 days ago and stopped doing everything and came back to my deep self... only to realize that I fucking hate my deep self because I get friend zoned in seconds so I'm going back to self destructive mode. My surface personality is so detached that I lose my identity but that's what the girls like.... and my deep personality is awesome imo but again... fuck getting friendzoned. I'm going to avoid drugs this time because that's just a generally bad idea, but I'm going to cut off a few people and isolate myself and get back into my mindset.

I hope you find a better way. I hate even thinking about this because I always figure I will probably die alone lol
 
#3 ·
Daaaaamn, I resonate well with this, I have the two sides aswell, the cool me and the more real human me, what I'm trying to do is merge the two i.e take the good qualities of each, the outgoing cool and the sweet gentlemen, and merge them together to create a super enfp lols.
Because as much as I like the cool me, I only really see it as a facade or an act and do kinda feel like it's not the real me picking up the girls, meaning it makes the win seem less like I've won and more like my surface cool self "won" and she doesn't like me for me, just the mask I wear.
 
#4 ·
And I know I get friendzoned 95% of the time so are all ENFP males basically auto friendzoned? well not Automatically but generally end up being Friendzoned?
And if this is so, what makes us so romantically unattractive?

The fact we seem so immature maybe?
Maybe also the fact that we may push too hard at the beginning i.e needy actions?

I ask since I know most ENFP guys have trouble with women, which i've talked about in other posts. I posted this to target that specific Idea.

So is this true and if so how do we get out/steer clear
No, i don't think its because you push too hard, or immature. Could it be because you give to much away of yourself in the beginning ? Play all your cards? ENFP men are quite charming and make great friends. The problem with showing all your cards is it also doesn't leave much of a mystery. Not to say you do, although it may be something you might be doing without realizing. Women like a mystery, they like someone who can challenge them. I would say this is particularly true with ENFP women, or maybe i'm the only ?

Friendzone. O.k, what is a friend. Someone who is there to listen, helpful, kind, available emotionally and mentally. Stands by you through thick and thin. Comforts you when your sad or lonely and so on. See with some women they love all that in a man. They know when they have a good friend. So taking this to the next level with this man they may think " What if we end up breaking up " ? Then what, i don't only lose in the relationship, i also might lose a really great friend. I think this could be some of the reason some women won't risk taking it to the next level. They value the friendship way too much , and would rather hold on to that " Just encase "...I can't speak for ENFP men, but i believe this happens. They give way too much of who they are from the get go, show women how caring they are. Women love that and could value that over losing in a relationship. You still can be all of those things in a less subtle way.

When meeting new people and finding someone you're attracted too. Try and hold off on showing them everything you are. Give them a reason to keep coming back, spending time with you, and getting to know more about you. If they get everything within the first few mts, they may get bored and feel there is nothing left to know. Give bits and pieces of yourself, your life and family. As a woman i enjoyed the mystery of a man, a man who kept me guessing. I wanted to be around him, wanted to keep knowing more. Once you become close and have some deeper communication with meaning, then you can show a deeper side of you and get more personal.
 
#9 ·
That's not particularly fair to the guys then - in fact that's incredibly selfish on any females part because as an NF I generally become more attracted the stronger the connection is and then end up getting friend zoned because that connection means something else to her. I've dealt with that a lot (esp. when I was younger) which is why I've never had a real relationship before. There's nothing wrong with me personally, just the females who don't know a good thing when it's standing in front of them. It's funny because the more of an asshole I am... the more most girls want me and the more disgusted I am with them and the more I treat them like shit. And the more they won't leave me alone.... lol. I usually end up shutting down completely on most girls who friendzone me like that, I don't have time to waste on a girl who only wants to be friends unless it's completely platonic.
 
#5 ·
When I've had a couple of drinks, I use my ENFP ego-bypass technique to cut through to a girl's deepest insecurities and make her feel better about them, with good intentions of course. Throw in some mystery and some masterfully blended wit and charm, with eye contact and a lopsided smile; the friend-zone isn't even a risk. If the mystery isn't there and you're too much of a pussy, the setup fails and you're friend-zoned.

Usually, after taking my shortcut through the friend-zone, I leave them and go back to my friends, but that's because I don't want to hook up; perfectly happy with my girlfriend. I just enjoy the connection.
 
#7 ·
I don't think that I know any male ENFPs (only ESFPs :dry:) or I'm pretty sure that I'd be desperately in love with them. At least if my favourite actors list is any indication... it seems to be all ENFPs and INFJs. Men with feelings make me swoon.

Anyway, My best friend and roommate of 6 years, though, is an ENFP, and she seems to have more in common with most ENFP guys than girls... she's pretty self-loathing about her feelings. So I might be able to speak to this a bit. But anyway, to the questions!

are all ENFP males basically auto friendzoned? well not Automatically but generally end up being Friendzoned?
I've never seen her interested in someone where it got to the point where they said to her, "sorry, I don't think that this is going to work, but I'd love to be your friend." She's actually the one who usually "flakes out" first. She isn't a flaky person at all (she's very, very loyal), but she doesn't really try to force things to work with people. If they do, great. But if they don't, she isn't the kind of person to stick around, especially in the early stages.

Since she doesn't really pursue people, I've never seen her get friendzoned, but I do know that when she and I first met (I'm not going to lie, our epic friendship is basically a sexless marriage and even in that regard... we totally tried to go there and it just didn't end up working for us), I was initially very wary of her because I felt like she was treating me like she treated everyone else. I really liked her, but I didn't think that I mattered to her. So we were kind of like magnets circling around each other for the first two and a bit years. We'd be all over each other every time we met, just super obnoxious about our intense connection ("if we ever hung out, we'd be BEST, BEST friends") but we were both too nervous to make the first move in terms of actually going there.

Even when we did become closer friends and it was very clear to me that she was my best friend, I was still afraid to call her that because I still had this nagging little doubt in the back of my mind that she either didn't feel the same way or would find that very claustrophobic and needy and clingy and laugh at me/reject me. I've since learned that I exude "I'm damaged and I have boundary issues" to any xNFx within a 10 mile radius and she couldn't believe that I wanted to be her friend (not because I'm particularly great or anything, just because I was so quiet and weird and lonerish and cold in high school that I got a reputation for thinking I was "better" than everyone else). So she was also stubborn and decided that she wouldn't say it until I did.

The fact we seem so immature maybe?
Maybe also the fact that we may push too hard at the beginning i.e needy actions?
I think that that definitely could be part of it. I'm not sure how old you are, but I think that I would have found ENFP guys to be "immature" when I was younger. I've since learned to make the distinction of childish and childlike. My ENFP is the least childish person in the world, but she does have a certain something about her that is very childlike. I think it might be the fact that she's very, very idealistic/optimistic. But honestly, I love that about her. I love that she isn't as jaded and miserable as I am and I love that she picks me up without even trying. Now that we're living together, she's even able to do it without physically being in the same space as me. It's a very remarkable thing.

When we first became friends, as I mentioned before, she was able to read me really, really well. She suspected that I might bolt if she came on too strong because I'm so intensely introverted, and so she reined herself in. She always made herself available whenever I wanted to do something with her, but she very, very rarely initiated anything.

Emotionally, she isn't a very needy person, at least not in a way that I read as needy. I need very intense, close relationships with the important people in my life and she is the same way. There was a period of time last year where I was pretty unhealthy following the disintegration of my first serious relationship and tried to keep it from her for various silly and stupid reasons and that was probably the only time she's ever been needy and even that was a result of me (un?)intentionally stonewalling her in order to put myself together a bit first.

So is this true and if so how do we get out/steer clear
I think that the perpetual friend-zoning thing could be type related because an overwhelming number of my N-dominant friends are chronically single. I obviously can't speak to the composition of your personal friend/acquaintance groups, but statistically speaking, most people are sensors. And I've had a couple of sensors tell me that the reason why they don't like me/her/us (or initially didn't like me/her/us) is because we make them feel stupid. So it's possible that there's a bit of this going on.

I've also noticed that male NFs (and female NTs!) seem to have a rougher go of it in general because they often don't really act in gender appropriate ways, even if they have learned to more or less fake it to make it. No matter the type, most heterosexual girls are brought up to be attracted to men who act like men and most heterosexual guys are brought up to be attracted to girls who act like girls. It's why female NT-male NF relationships are often trickier than female NF-male NT ones, even though they should technically be no different.

Tl;dr I guess what I'm trying to say is just to keep being yourself. I'm sincerely sorry that people can't recognise how incredibly you are but you shouldn't have to change who you are for someone when there are people out there who will like you for who you really are. I know that it's hard to be patient, but you'll be a lot happier in the end.

ETA: I'll second/third/fourth/etc. everything that's been said above about being slightly mysterious. I feel like that is kind of what my friend did when we first met, playing hard to get and making me come to her. That combined with ENFP charm would be absolutely irresistible.
 
#11 ·
Head, Heart, Cajones

And if this is so, what makes us so romantically unattractive?
The fact we seem so immature maybe?
Maybe also the fact that we may push too hard at the beginning i.e needy actions?
I do not think we have to alter our personality in order to have a female sexually attracted to us, but I will agree that there is more of a tendency of getting blown out early on in an interaction because of our innate energy/willingness to give. It's as if our greatest gift is our greatest enemy all at the same time, a double edged sword.

It is a sword none the less though and if you can swing it, do so. Use your creative energy to open up the natural poet/love/man inside of you, as opposed to putting that energy into being immature. That way instead of trying to hide your "true self" your simply putting your energy into one of the many components of your personality. Remember girls can be just as dorkish as us, so you can show your odd side a little later into a relationship. (I'm strictly talking opening)

As to the pushing to hard thing, its all about not reacting which is the only thing I would change as an ENFP when trying to attract a women. If she gives you a bad reaction/harsh reaction do not react to it, you may be melting inside, maybe even crying but your ability not to react to petty shit (excuse my french) is intoxicating to women.

Then there is the number one rule of attraction, ESCALATE. It is the failure to escalate that leads people into the friend zone, escalation is attractive, and failure to progress the 'dance' will leave you without a partner.

1. Escalate (You can not get put in the friend zone)
2. Poetic Justice (Put your ENFP Energy into being the Seducer rather then Entertainment)
3. Do not React (You have to be able to handle her attitude, you are the protector)

Here is a link to my beautiful mind thread: http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/73608-seductive-mind-enfp-beautiful-mind.html

Also read the source, it will help you learn a bit more about yourself.
 
#16 ·
You know what?

Confidence for an enfp comes from within.

Do something that sets you apart and makes you interesting. Get some new hobbies, work out, take an interest in some intellectual pursuits.

Better yourself overall. Then use the tips in this thread to help better yourself. If you can walk the walk then talking the talk will be even easier.
 
#24 ·
I get the feeling that you're trying to convince yourself that you can and should be happy for everything that you've accomplished, even if nothing else ever comes of your life. You talk like you're on the path of self-enlightenment and that's something a lot of people who aren't as mature or intelligent can misinterpret as gloating. It's incredibly off-putting to the people who don't understand and yet, none of it is your fault.

There's nothing wrong with trying to find happiness, but there's something else I'm getting from your post. There's an overwhelming helplessness that usually stems from putting in more effort than you feel is necessary and still not seeing results. It's something that, if you're not careful, can pervade all of your actions. When you're showing your all to people, they'll feel that you think it's not enough and hopeless anyway, so why even try? The negativity pushes people away and even though I'm sure you realize it, the fact that you're realizing it shows on your face and gives the hopelessness a lot more weight. It's a cycle that's incredibly vile and stops at nothing until you hit rock bottom.

The only way out of this is to stop trying to find the thing that's missing and just accept everything for what it is. You've accepted yourself and that's great, but you need to accept that you can be just as happy alone as you'd be with anyone else. That's what'll ultimately attract the person you're meant to meet. The "I don't give a fuck" attitude without the need to tell that to the world. The second you say it out loud instead of exude it, the second it will look like you're trying too hard. It's been hell for me to learn and although I haven't found the right person yet, I've had a lot more opportunities.
 
#29 ·
I am an ENFP female and my last relationship was with an ENFP male. We are now friends : ) (Well, distant...) I ended things with him because he was very immature emotionally. I don't think that was an ENFP trait but there were other things that kinda drove me insane. 1. He did not take care of himself. Now, I'm not too picky on guy's and their looks...actually prefer them to be a bit rugged but be CLEAN, hygiene #1. He is crazy smart, a teacher....but never spent enough time taking care of himself. 2. He was not financially responsible. I am an independent ENFP female who makes sure bills are paid and likes to make smart investments. For me personally, I would like someone equally or MORE responsible in the finance department. 3. He talked... a LOT. Now, I realize us ENFPs vary quite a bit....and I have found through my ex here that I was more so introverted/extroverted then him. He talked over people, very loud...did not have good listening skills. I think the most loving thing you can do for people is listen to them, really listen. He would listen to me but you could see him thinking when anyone else was talking to him....not cool. 4. He had too many similarities to me. We liked to read the same things, played the same sports, had similar ways of thinking... It was just not attractive. I also didn't like how he hounded me for so much attention. I am the girl, sheesh...if anyone was too do it let it be me for God's sake! Oh, and forget ever making it anywhere in the car with both of us and directions. I was better at directions than him also, make me feel like the dude a lot...which was again not very attractive.

I think that male ENFPs have a hard time getting past being labeled as 'friends' for one BIG reason and I know this because I am personally an ENFP. A large percentage of us don't like to take a lead role, it's a lot more comfortable to be the power behind the thrown as they say. I think that woman by nature want the guy to lead, and have them be the dominant one in the relationship. From my past experience with my ENFP ex someone needed to be the dominant 'leader' of the couple...and unfortunately that became me. I am a capable woman, but at the end of the day I don't want to feel like I am the dominant one in the relationship. The Feeling preference is more common in female's...and female's are innately attracted to a 'leader' which tend to lean toward Thinking types or Judging types.
 
#31 ·
@zadude I was worried that was the case when I posted it. Never mind me, then. :tongue:
I remind myself that since Romeo was likely an ENFP (or INFP or just an NF in general!)... there is no damn surprise I even feel this intensely about the subject. Sometimes it comes off as too intense and gets misinterpreted... when I take a step back, I realize that maybe I'll be alright. The whole... I'd rather die thing... ya it goes through my head... but then I realize there are still people (my immediate family) I love who mean the world to me and nothing would make me want to lose the joy of seeing them happy. It just would be nice to feel what I've been searching for... for once! And even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted... that feeling of closeness is unbeatable, everyone wants to feel it.
 
#32 ·
Man, this thread I think could be applied to the xNFx subgroup as a whole. In my case I'm assertive for an ENFP, I speak my mind, and disagree with you even if you're cute. I have been put in a friend's zone before, but short of changing my "NF-ness" I'm sure it would happen in those select cases anyways.

I think the independence and spontaneous nature of us is actually attractive to many people. In the case of men like me, if a woman doesn't want me...She's likely (one of the many in my life) hardcore xSFJ types that wants an SP to begin with anyways. I'm not an SP, superficially on some levels, maybe...But I value the depth of my character and my intuitive nature. So I'll wait for someone that appreciates me as an xNFx. And I can wait for a long time.
 
#33 ·
try this.....
next time you meet a girl, be your enfp self without the immaturity and always act in control, get her number, and if she tells you to wait for her then don't and go off....and that's it
wait and she will definetly message you first...it's the fact that you were nice and fun (but not immature!) but still act like you are a man in control

best thing is...you don't get too close to be friend zoned...or emotionally close
 
#34 ·
Reviving an old thread just because I can.

I believe this is purely a cultural problem relating to gender roles. I know being an American in a foreign country is helpful but when I lived abroad for a year after the "mysterious" american effect wore off in the small town I lived in I was still lusted after by a ton of british women.

This also happened in Canada which is a bit closer. I never dropped the, "I'm an american" line in Canada either. Accent wise they allthought I was from Ontario.

But it really comes down to gender roles. Most women want their Mr. T. It's what our society adores and expects from men.

Frankly I find that a load of bull. It has nothing to do with "cards" or "mystery" and all to do with the crap that our country expects from most men.

Attraction be damned, most women don't know what they're missing with ENFP men. I'll happily play cocky funny though. It's fun to mess with the minds of the opposite sex.

Read The Game for a perfect example of an ENFP using his natural gifts for blunt manipulation and becoming lost because of it.

I won't do that again or live like that. I won't bend myself to become "more attractive" to others. I'm a man because I'm highly independant, future oriented, and I treat people well.

My tips for an ENFP man are, be assertive. We aren't backed by senored logic. We're backed by principles. These are way more powerful then some pointless forced logic.

Look at the values of being a REAL man. Independant, organized, steadfast, and caring. Not dark, cold, and brooding.

I've watched one too many girls go for their "mysterious bad boy" to come whine back to me when he's abusive and mean. No sh!t sherlock! Dark and brooding doesn't mean mysterious. It means a lack of empathy and you're going to pay dearly for it when he starts dominating you.

I love women. I love making them laugh, giggle, smile, etc. But this claim to a mysterious man is a joke and a half. You want a bad boy that's fine, but either put up or shut up when you start to get hurt by him.

You can be an ENFP man and not lose yourself in what American society wants from men. Find principles you as an ENFP man can live with and project them outward by living true to them. For the ENFP male, confidence comes from within. Find that confidence in your inner values and live by them. Women will find that attractive.

Sorry for the rant, but I got out of a gender studies class a few hours ago talking about this AND talked to a friend about her thing for bad boys.
 
#35 ·
Lol. I toy with a lot of women now out of anger, since they have no respect for who I really am, I figure I'll toy with them. I like to think of it as creating an illusion... and then placing them in that illusion and bending their reality at my will. I never actually do anything bad because I'm not particularly interested in random hook ups or taking advantage of someone. I usually walk away and they're confused. I enjoy building my ability to charm - that I can use on the girls I am actually interested in. It works.
 
#36 ·
Any guy that expresses a lack of individuality, confidence, or self-worth is almost always automatically placed into the friend zone, no matter what type he is.
 
#39 ·
I saw this in another thread
http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/46220-male-enfps.html



And I know I get friendzoned 95% of the time so are all ENFP males basically auto friendzoned? well not Automatically but generally end up being Friendzoned?
And if this is so, what makes us so romantically unattractive?

The fact we seem so immature maybe?
Maybe also the fact that we may push too hard at the beginning i.e needy actions?

I ask since I know most ENFP guys have trouble with women, which i've talked about in other posts. I posted this to target that specific Idea.

So is this true and if so how do we get out/steer clear
I friendzone almost all ENFP's and for the exact reasons you listed. You guys seem SO NEEDY and CLINGY once even the slightest hint of a possibility of a relationship is established ! It drives me up the wall! And the immaturity, I can't stand much either.
 
#52 ·
Ha! You need to go on a date with me then.

Clingy is the last thing I'd describe myself. I am fiercely independent and don't need anyones help to live my life.

I cook, clean, dress myself very well, balance my checkbook, and live a pretty well rounded life. My emotions tend to stay in check depending on how much stress I have (let's see you turn into that shadow ISFP self of yours!).

Immaturity is in the eyes of the beholder. You need to know how to have fun, enjoy spontanity (within financial means of course), and be able to take bad puns and jokes. I like blunt no BS people, but unwind sometimes you're not at work!

Did I mention I cook? Dinner is lamb shanks tomorrow :p see you at 8!
 
#56 ·
Oh, lol, I wish you had been more clear! xD Sensors do overrun the US... no joke. Oh, and what type do you suppose I am? Humor me :)
 
#62 ·
@zadude I've copied our first interaction on this thread... JUST FOR THE RECORD :p

Originally Posted by Ace Face
"Any guy that expresses a lack of individuality, confidence, or self-worth is almost always automatically placed into the friend zone, no matter what type he is."

You responded with:
"Depth lands someone pretty quickly in the friends zone lol ;)"

Now, switch places. If you had made my statement, and I had made yours, how would you perceive it? I felt that you took a nip, so I took a nip back. You didn't hurt my feelings or anything, but I acted in the same manner I felt I was being treated. Eye for an eye... something like that, only less dramatic :p Making sense?
 
#66 ·
Well, I wouldn't make judgments - simply ask for additional clarifications to build a theory, but that's how I roll. Also, my initial message was extremely neutral, certainly not a "nip". I'm not sure how I could have put that "nicely" since I simply see it as neutral. I was referring to guys (since you were referring to guys as well), not you since depth in a female is generally appreciated by even sensor guys I find - "depth lands someone [guys] pretty quickly in the friends zone"

@zadude I've copied our first interaction on this thread... JUST FOR THE RECORD :p

Originally Posted by Ace Face
"Any guy that expresses a lack of individuality, confidence, or self-worth is almost always automatically placed into the friend zone, no matter what type he is."

You responded with:
"Depth lands someone pretty quickly in the friends zone lol ;)"

Now, switch places. If you had made my statement, and I had made yours, how would you perceive it? I felt that you took a nip, so I took a nip back. You didn't hurt my feelings or anything, but I acted in the same manner I felt I was being treated. Eye for an eye... something like that, only less dramatic :p Making sense?
 
#77 ·
Haha I Just remembered a story that fits perfectly with my Argument

Met a girl, instant eye contact then approach
saw her again next week, got number
we go out just us "implying a date right"?
Then when we always hang out at the club like once a week I'm always grinding on her my hands all over her, since we're seemingly dating
We go out just us and it usually ends in a kiss. It didn't seem like it was going anywhere at the time but I thought she was just taking it slow and I was losing interest and such since she wasn't really replying so much to my texts, i.e 1-2 for a response sometimes.
But we did french one time...for a dare though.
But her friends were talking as if we were going out too, i.e what do i think of her etc. and now it seems kinda weird lols.
So one day I ask her, "I think we should change our status on facebook" i.e get serious
Then at this club it seems as if she trying to get away and I try to follow her because I wanna spend time with her since she works 5 days a week and I didn't get to see her.
And then like 3 weeks later she breaks up with me saying I was following her round like a puppy dog or something can't rememeber

Now here's where it all goes wtf...the week after she said we were actually just friends and were never dating because I never actually asked...are you even supposed to ask? Isn't just natural progression?

And we never went past first base and maybe that should've been a sign, but the fact that she wanted to hang out alone was a sign enough for me.

Thats my auto friendzoned story, so A. Where did I go wrong? Forget the asking thing and B. who else has similar stories or stories relating in general?

Might be a good thing to talk about
 
#80 ·
I'm a male ENFP but I can't relate to this thread. I think it's because I naturally do the "light teasing" that frenchie mentioned. I don't do it with any goal in mind, I just tease and flirt because it's so much fun. If you don't do this naturally, learning how could help you a lot. It may very well be an ENFP's "Get Out of Jail Free Card" when it comes to the Friend Zone.

In my experience, here's how the different types of women respond to ENFP teasing and flirting:
- Some absolutely love it and keep wanting more (ENFJ, INFP, ENFP, ISFJ, ESFJ).
- Some love it until we express deep feelings and then they freak out (ISTJ, ESTP).
- Some feed off an ENFP's enthusiasm but aren't really smitten (ESFP, ISFP).
- Some have almost no reaction (INTP, INTJ).
- A few strongly hate it (ESTJ, ENTP).
- I haven't met any female ENTJ's or ISTP's. No idea how they react.
- INFJ's are a special case: they really enjoy their interactions with ENFP's but remain skeptical for awhile.
 
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