[omnivorousmanatee]

I'm currently in a relationship (almost 6 months), which has been really really great. With an INFJ (I think, he happened to take a test before starting to date me, but I think sometimes these internet tests can have varying results) Normally when I'm healthier, we get along great. I'm a person who could take forever to make a decision, but he can help me choose quickly. When he seems obsessed with making the right choice about something small and inconsequential, I can remind him that some spontaneity is good. Not only that, but I've been able to talk with him about anything, and even if there is a conflict, through discussion, things work out so that we understand each other better, and the love and trust has always grown. This helps me, because in the past I had a ridiculous fear of confrontation. And now it's not that I like confrontation, it's just a way I've learned to take care of myself so I can better care for others. (I'm an ENFP, Enneagram Type 2).

So I think I should go over some of my past to explain a little about myself. I did have some small rebellious experiences while young, but when I learn of those of others (especially my boyfriend's) they seem very puny or normal and harmless in comparison. There were times I'd suck at school because of the whole wavering attention span with subjects that didn't excite me, I'd draw a lot in class. My dad used to be a much more anxious person, and my mom used to be overly worrisome. My dad would try to teach me good study habits, and I wanted to try and pick them up... but then I've had a tendency to be really bad at following through with things (it's better now). Eventually he got more and more frustrated, and then even angry. A few times that anger was really scary. For a long time after this my desire for academic success felt like it was founded on fear. Now, I realize my dad wanted me to do well, and I try to appreciate it, because at least he cared, right? I went to art school, did great, and recently graduated. Ever since I've been in college, and shown more responsibility for myself, he backed down, and has been more laid back with me. So we get along great, and I've forgiven him. But I can't help but feel like the attempt to control my patterns has left me with a higher tendency for paranoia.

Ok, another factor which I think adds into this: My first relationship, and only one before this, lasted 2 1/2 years. After a good first year, I started to become very stressed with the relationship. I was 19 when it began, but by the time I was 20 or 21 my world view was changing. I was finding things that I cared about (and I admit, I went through some dumb obsessive phases), and began to see more clearly where I wanted go go with my life. He wanted to simply get married, live in a suburb, and have children (I guess I wanted to live exactly how he was raised, he was never rebellious as a child.). He turned out to be manipulative. I was a people-pleaser. My parents and friends continuously warned me, but I didn't understand fully until the moment before I broke up for the final time. I guess I wanted to be so unselfish that I even let him fool me that I was emotionally abusive. He would hide in my closet or mope when I upset him, and the more times this happened, the more I had to offer for forgiveness. When my desires originally began to clash with his, the relationship should have been ended. But neither of us were good at ending one. We broke up and got back together a total of 7 times before I finally couldn't take one shred more. I finally realized he was using his upset towards a mistake of mine to get something he wanted from me. It was finally obvious, and I've had a better sense and higher guard towards manipulation and control since.

I spent a year after this being very happy, very optimistic about my future, feeling eager to learn new things, becoming stronger and more assertive (to balance my desire to help others). I think I became much more balanced as a person, and I learned how to temper my once high anxiety and paranoia.

So my concern, and reason for this post, is that I've been noticing myself becoming paranoid again. There's also this linked desire to control stupid little things. My boyfriend has been telling me more and more about his teenage experiences (a few which were shocking, some not so much) and how different his personality was then. Normally I want to support him anyway, since I feel like his mistakes and hard learned lessons have set him up with a desire to grow. But I get this anxiety. He admitted to having few morals as a teenager, and as a person with some high ones, I feel myself getting a little judgemental. He asks me to just trust him, and I want to, but when I saw him starting to smoke again with one of our friends, I got this uncomfortable feeling. He's talked to me about his father who is an alcoholic and smokes. He worries about his dad's addictive tendencies. He has had a tendency himself to not show much control around alcohol, but only on occasions. He said he smoked because 'it looked good.' I likened this to how it momentarily looked appealing for me to throw some rotten potatoes, but that didn't mean it was a good idea, and it became a joke. He understood. I really don't want to be a nag, and definitely don't want to be controlling, but it's hard for me to not be bothered by some things :/. And it's even harder for me to just forget my feelings. I have to address them, or they fester inside and cause problems. He said he took comfort in it coming from a place of concern for his well being. It's true, most of this discomfort comes from a place of wanting him to make good choices, and I want this relationship to last a long time. He wants me to trust him, but learning more and processing more of his erratic past makes me feel like I need some kind of reassurance. Half of me feels like this isn't fair though, and I fear that I'm on my way to becoming what I hated: manipulative and controlling.

This is where my current paranoia is coming from. The problem, these things seem to subside when I'm around him, or around others, but when alone it feels like these thoughts take over and even become torturing. I can't sleep. So, to clarify, this isn't really a 'relationship help' thread, but I'm giving that information for context. It's more for my own emotional help, so that I can in turn keep the relationship healthy. I feel kind of guilty talking about it here and not to him first, but then again I don't want to lay all my problems on him. I thought I had learned to deal with constant anxiety and prevent it, but it's hard to constantly be having to tell myself things to keep irrational feelings at bay.

[omnivorousmanatee]

TLDR; thinking I'd learned to temper my obsessive mind and my anxious tendencies, the problem is coming back, and it's all about things which anybody could tell me are small issues, and possibly just superficial ones. Even though I know this, it feels like these thoughts take over. I want to stop this process, I don't want my stupid obsessive thoughts to keep haunting me, and to potentially ruin what is a wonderful relationship.

Any other ENFPs or Type 2's have experience with anxiety and paranoia? Thoughts taking over?

[omnivorousmanatee]

Well I guess the solution is as simple as deciding NOT to think this way. If my mind has to be constantly going on something, better something that actually helps me. It's just frustrating to find myself so prone to self-destructive tendencies like this, and then remembering how simple it is to turn it around. Maybe it would be better to post in a thread about general ENFP frustrations. My issue could be that I've spent too much time alone lately. Sometimes having a mind full of possibilities is great, but sometimes I just want to sleep. 'A'

So uh yeah... going to just relax now. I understand if this thread was a total waste of time to read, but cool if you're down for reading about personal experience of others.

[Kelly617]

We all have our vices. It's impossible to have a healthy and harmonious relationship with someone without recognizing that, and also recognizing that a few bad habits does not a bad person make. If he was being unreasonable, manipulative or nasty in some way, then you should be reevaluating your opinion of him, but not just based on the fact that he smokes.

It sounds like you've always been quite highly aware of things, which makes it difficult to really rebel when you're younger. It's not a bad thing, but it means you have less of an understanding, and are possibly less comfortable, with the idea that someone you care about has that side to them.

I understand having anxieties too, and they're not always rational or logical. In fact, most of the time they're completely unfounded and exaggerated in our minds. It's important, though, to understand that it probably is all in your mind. The likelyhood that one bad habit is going to turn into a serious problem is fairly slim, especially if you keep the lines of communication open. Smoking is also a pretty easy one to deal with. It's bad for his health, but it doesn't perpetuate bad behaviour like some other vices might.

You're right, the solution is simply to stop thinking that way. However, that's not always easy. If it really is a general anxiety issue, you can always talk to someone about it - a doctor or counselor. Just try not to let it override all of your thoughts, because that will end up destroying your relationship and your peace of mind.

Good luck!

[Tridentus]

i'll tell you what ISN'T helping..- writing a huge self analytical essay about your fears. the more you think about it the worse it'll make it..

think of this as your guiding light:
"i will have these feelings, i will accept them, and i will live life properly anyway. or i will GET ON WITH IT anyway."
let that phrase BECOME you, repeat it to yourself and force yourself to believe it. fairly soon you should feel yourself become more confident in tackling through these types of issues.

[omnivorousmanatee]

Thanks Kelly.

It's hard for me to just stop a feeling or thoughts (in fact, that kind of approach has never worked for me), but your right about how destructive it can be, even to myself, as stressful as it gets. I don't want to think this way. Your right that bad habits don't reflect bad personality. I can definitely agree here, as my own experience with him confirms it. In reality it doesn't detract from his support of everything I do, so it's not worth it for me to cause unnecessary problems. Whenever I'm around him and these thoughts come up, I immediately counter them with what matters more, and then convert harmful negative feelings to love and appreciation. -_- That, and maybe he wouldn't have been the person I love now if he hadn't had those experiences first to learn from.

It feels like I'm always learning and relearning these lessons, of how to just deal with life in a healthy way. I know that it's better to ask questions about others than just to think them in relation to myself, and what I get. I have noticed that when my mind spirals into these anxious thoughts, it's because I'm self absorbed, not always realizing that even though I'm thinking of others, its centered around what ultimately happens to me. It's hard to say if that's natural, I mean... I do have to take care of myself... But when I approach with questions leading to more questions, I tend to be much more empathetic. It's such a learned habit of ours to treat others this way, that it could be something that I have to approach consciously for years before the healthy habit is really learned. Maybe just because I've learned how to keep self-destructive thoughts at bay during one situation of my life doesn't mean that I don't have to learn it all over again for a new situation. That's a really humbling realization. It's simultaniously an encouraging relief that I can always be learning, and a tiring realization that I will not often be able to rest with what I've already learned, that it seems I'm always forgetting if I'm not remembering. Or maybe that I'm often forgetting, then remembering, then forgiving.

I'm also finding that though I'm unable to forget or just stop thinking thoughts or having feelings, I can talk through them, to get past them (when I try to face them head on, they seem to become impassable). So your right, I need talking in order to process my thoughts and come to realizations like this. Thanks for replying, what you said set me on the right path to process it.

I think that... when I become tired... overwhelmed with expectations I impose on myself (though some do feel imposed by others) it's harder to find this clarity. I'm not really sure what to do about this besides to take better care of myself. I've always had this conflict between taking care of my basic needs and wanting to be reliable to other people. But I need to take a note from the boyfriend's book and remember that it's better to take care of myself as needed, rather than become grumpy and a pain for everyone.

Lol... sometimes these things are easier said than done though. Still learning the 'doing' part.

[omnivorousmanatee]

Tridenticus, what you said is exactly what I needed.

You're absolutely right about the over-analyzing, and really, I think that's how I've been driving myself crazy. Your bluntly honest words shut up the chatter. Big relief, thank you!

[tokyovogue]

I over-analyze too and have terrible anxiety problems - but I'm working on them!

Keys to succeeding at beating anxiety:
-Remember that things are probably not how you're perceiving them.
-What is the worst case scenario? No matter how bad it is, you will get through it (you've got through life so far)!
-Breathe
-If you catch your mind going off, and you know that deep down you're just over-analyzing... stop! Tell yourself "no more". Focus on something else.

:)

[brightlywound]

Stop caring so much. Turn off that worrywort switch in your well-meaning benevolent Type 2 heart, and fill your thoughts with optimistic mantras. Or other stuff... get into of those hobbies you've shelved since letting your boyfriend and this relationship and all of the obsessive anxiety surrounding it to take up the majority of your head space.

One of the hardest aspects of that Type 2 mentality to deal with (I tested Type 2 at first, although I lean more toward a Type 9 since I'm a bit less wrapped around the axle about people acknowledging my good deeds) is knowing what's best for people and wanting to control them so that they do it. One of my cousins with whom I'm very close has struggled with alcohol and smoking. He's been on the straight and narrow for awhile, but I see other unhealthy addictions surfacing as of late, likely related to the same dopamine regulation issue that drug/alcohol is related to. At first I worried about this constantly, kindly giving him advice and tirelessly researching how he can fix his problem and what I could do to be instrumental in the process. It's draining, isn't? Shouldering a burden like this for someone, letting their inaction and self destructive behavior jerk your soft heart around like a puppet on a string, being manipulated (unbeknownst to them) by their refusal to take responsibility and address their own problem.

Step back, and breathe. Accept the fact that you don't have control, and that it's not your job to do so. You are not a therapist or a life coach, and you need to focus on yourself. Be selfish. You have my permission to not give a flying f!@# about what does not directly affect you and what you cannot change. Let it go. And if you need some space from him, that's cool. Just tell him you need some time to center yourself and process your emotions and step back before you lose yourself. If he gets mad about that, he's not worth your time. You come first... you're not married to him. Do what you need to do to keep your head straight.

Obsessive thoughts are hard not think about (obviously), but it is entirely possible to consciously control where your mind wanders. I had to learn to do this after getting dumped by my first and only boyfriend - an ISTP who couldn't articulate why he wanted to break up due to his inability to discuss feelings. You can imagine the possibilities and negative self talk floating around in my head in the weeks and month after that traumatic event. Here's what you do.

Step 1:
1. Acknowledge you're feeling a certain way
2. Tell yourself it's okay to feel that way. Don't be self-critical and beat yourself up about it. It's all good. Have a moment. Then... consciously grab a positive thought - a happy memory, a goal you're planning on achieving, an idea you've had that has tons of potential to be expressed as an original creative work... hold it in your mind, and run with it.
3. Realize that no matter how much you think these paranoid thoughts, it won't change your reality for the better. These thoughts are not helpful, they're not new (aka they're boring!), and they can't help you be true to yourself and express who you are. They might be a comfortable place to go to, just like a pint of ice cream is comfortable in place of facing your sorrow head on in a break up situation, but that comfort is false, unfulfilling, and not grounded in reality. Paranoid thoughts don't do you any good and don't get you any closer to acting in accordance with your internal moral code. They don't help you to be true to yourself, and they're not conducive to creative expression. Ditch them.

My advice to you is to see an awesome therapist who's cool to talk to, if you don't already see one. Second, if possible, don't hold back when you have reservations about your bf saying things like it looks good when he smokes. Seriously? That's how this thought process works? It sounds like you two have different values. Don't bend over backwards to not rock the boat with him. Tell him how you feel about his behavior (note: this is different from who he is), without worrying about whether you're being unsupportive or paranoid. He'll appreciate your opinion, judgements and all, if y'all are compatible. And then, leave it at that. It's not your job to worry about his life. Again, you're not married, and you have plenty of options in terms of male partners at this point in your life. You're worth a guy who takes good care of himself, and who appreciates how amazing you are. Keep in mind though that it's how your boyfriend acts in the here and now, right in front of your nose, that is important to focus on. Being judgmental about his past is not helpful to get any closer to knowing who he is.

Here's a summary: Don't overthink this stuff because you don't need to worry your pretty little head about matters that are out of your hands. Just focus on the here and now, and throw yourself into your passions that are unrelated to your relationship to avoid dwelling on self-destructive thoughts. It might also be a good idea to get out and volunteer more. Helping the less fortunate is the way to get used to loving without expecting anything in return. Loving others with no strings attached and no ulterior motive will get easier and easier the more you do it.

If you're religious, I'd definitely advise praying a lot more. Like, whenever those thoughts come into your head, it can be useful to say a prayer and have a moment with God to calm and reassure yourself and focus your energy on Him instead of on yourself. He's got your back.

Philippians 4:6-7
"Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand..."

[omnivorousmanatee]

To clarify, there's nothing really wrong in the relationship. I even did talk about it soon after, and relating the choice of doing something because it looked good to if I chose to throw a rotten potato, simply because it seemed fun for a few seconds (but turns out to have no real reason, or good result). Confronting is not a problem. I've had a relationship in the past where I definitely was a people-pleaser. I don't have anything holding me back from talking about things, saying what I don't like. In fact, I realize it's best that way, as it keeps resentments from having a chance to build up. And he's said he's all for me saying what I need to say, it's ok if I get upset. He always knows if something is up, and always wants to know.

Though I have been worn out in general, which could have led to all the negative thoughts. I was definitely already in a cranky mood yesterday when these thoughts started coming. Even harder to keep negative thoughts at bay when you're already in a bad mood. Today it wasn't so much of a problem. Though I've also had some good advice for dealing with the obsessive thinking. So you're right in saying I need some more selfish care for myself.

The problem really lies in obsessively analyzing things even if they were already addressed, talked about, or just plain weren't relevant to the relationship now (what you're saying about being in the moment, not the past, is right.) So if there's something bothering me which I know needs to be addressed, I'll definitely bring it up. But if it's irrelevant, like past stuff that never involved me, then it's not worth worrying myself.