[n2freedom]

It seems to me when most ENFPs post in the ISTP forum that there is some form of ENFP bashing either directly or indirectly. I'm just curious do you think the taunting, insults, criticizing, smart remarks etc are all ploys to get attention from ENFPs?? Or, a reaction?? OR is that some ISTPs like to engage in debates?

And, while I'm on the subject does it appear to you that sometimes some ISTPs like to create drama in their relationships just so they can *fix* it? Or, do you think some ISTP engage in that type of behavior to create distance?

After all it appears as if they are just as adept at reading people as ENFP, and they know criticism is a *typical* sore spot for many ENFPs. LOL!

Your thoughts?

[MuChApArAdOx]

I don't know anything in regards to bashing in the ISTP forum as i don't post there. I've already made up my mind this ENFP and ISTP will not see eye to eye, i don't waste my time.

I do have a comment about types wanting attention from ENFP's. Not specifically ISTP, although included, along with different types in general. . And yes, all that you mentioned is a ploy to get your attention, some types remind me of people who need to be mothered. It's a real turn off for me personally. I'm not a circus clown, and won't entertain people just for the sake of giving them attention. I don't expect to be entertained either. There seems to be a trend of introverts that look towards the ENFP for comfort. I have no issues being friendly or whatever, although i won't be your leaning pole, or someone who will listen to all that blah for your amusement :)

[chinotto]

My heavily intuition-based theories on why ISTP bash ENFP:

- Most ISTP have been burned in romantic interactions in some way because they are slower to make up their minds about commitment than most other types, and because of their communication style. ENFP are particularly susceptible to the kinds of emotional desires / demands / freakouts that accompany common ISTP relationship drama. Therefore I think we strike a nerve. We are likely to want things from them that are tough or impossible for them to "produce" on our timeline.

- Also, we are prone to misunderstand them and call them jerks, even in cases where they care and are trying rather hard. This is because we are very sensitive to getting our emotional needs met, and they are not likely to do this on our timeline (or in some cases, ever).

- They tend to be extremely blunt, and we tend to take things personally. So they might try to give us very caring advice, compliments, etc, that we may take completely wrong. This hurts their feelings. : (

- At its worst they find our optimism silly... even though I believe they quietly enjoy it.

- I think we have a way of coaxing them out of their shells that scares them sometimes.

These are my hare-brained theories, not validated by any ISTP. : )

[tokyovogue]

I like your theories @chinotto.

I'd also like to mention that what has happened on a bunch of the threads in the ISTP forum looks like a full-blown meltdown of one ENFP. That sort of behavior is scary to anyone. It just happened that it was an ENFP posting on the ISTP forum. So ISTPs reacted negatively to ENFPs - because HEY! how we compare ourselves on this forum is by grouping ourselves into types. Its like... accepted stereotyping. So if ENFP A acts out in a scary way, it gives license to others reading their threads to claim that ENFPs are crazy.

Not saying I think this way - I totally get that just because I'm an ENFP I could be very different from say... Chinotto whom I think is much more mature than me. ;) I'm just saying... let's remember that at least some of the ENFP hate on the ISTP forum is related to an isolated incident.

[Norbert Weensalot Judas]

My heavily intuition-based theories on why ISTP bash ENFP:

- Most ISTP have been burned in romantic interactions in some way because they are slower to make up their minds about commitment than most other types, and because of their communication style. ENFP are particularly susceptible to the kinds of emotional desires / demands / freakouts that accompany common ISTP relationship drama. Therefore I think we strike a nerve. We are likely to want things from them that are tough or impossible for them to "produce" on our timeline.

- Also, we are prone to misunderstand them and call them jerks, even in cases where they care and are trying rather hard. This is because we are very sensitive to getting our emotional needs met, and they are not likely to do this on our timeline (or in some cases, ever).

- They tend to be extremely blunt, and we tend to take things personally. So they might try to give us very caring advice, compliments, etc, that we may take completely wrong. This hurts their feelings. : (

- At its worst they find our optimism silly... even though I believe they quietly enjoy it.

- I think we have a way of coaxing them out of their shells that scares them sometimes.

These are my hare-brained theories, not validated by any ISTP. : )

This is really inspired. One of my best friends for over a decade was an ISTP. Last year we pretty much came to the crossroads where she thought she was trying really hard to be "supportive" of me, but was in fact being very blunt and uncaring. The relationship ended really badly, and I believe it was due to the above factors.

[chinotto]

Agreed Tokyo, I don't think that ISTP are forever bashing ENFP; that has not been my experience at all.

I think the above are the major sources of conflict between ENFP/ISTP.
Don't want to understate how I think it hurts them badly to be misunderstood.

Also don't want to sound pessimistic... I think ENFP/ISTP can be really great for each other.
And on the boards here, ISTP have accepted a lot of epic ENFP lurking, and most of the response has been sweet / positive, IME... despite our tendencies to sometimes hijack threads, jump to conclusions, etc. ; )

[tokyovogue]

"Epic ENFP lurking" Yes its true!

[pmj85]

One of my very best (if not my absolute best) friends that I have known pretty much all of my life (since age 7) is an ISTP. It has been a hard relationship for us to forge at times; his bluntness and logical, well grounded take on things versus my illogical, 'feeling', taking everything to heart take on things has seen me infuriate him and him absolutely wound me to the core on so, so many occasions. Strangely however we've stayed very good friends! We still have arguments but over the years he has developed my thinking side and I seem to have developed his feeling side, so all in all it was worth persevering - we've essentially (in my opinion... which is right! :p) made each other more rounded individuals.

It's something that plays out in the many debates we have, and it has had a measurable increase over the years - I am now able to look at things far more objectively and he is capable (just about ;) ) of empathy.

Good times!

[Istbkleta]

@chinotto

Very well said and very positive thinking!

My closest friend ever is an ISTP and based on that and their posts on the forums I think they are absolutely wonderful caring people! I love them so much!

That said I've learned to give them their space and not impose my silly random vocal diarrhea that people with dominant extroverted perceiving function indulge in.

But their bluntness is not a problem for me because I use Ti while you guys have Fi.

I know they are amazing caring people and have Fe developed, which makes them care about others and want to help. As mentioned it doesn't work with Fi users.

It is a sad reality that as @MuChApArAdOx said, communication is almost impossible and it's nobody's fault but just a functions' thing. At least the MBTI gives us that understanding so we can try and not take it personally. Although I know how hard it is.

[marzipan01]

Face it, empathy is just hard for some people!
You don't know me! (my ENTJ friend says that a lot)
I have grown to find it endearing when thinking types react a bit oddly: either misinterpreting, underestimating, or over estimating someone else's emotional needs.
These endearing qualities now indicate I'm dealing with a thinker. It's always super funny when a thinker does something emotionally awkward. More than one ENTp has said in a very monotone voice: "I'm a very emotional person."
hahahaha.
After saying this, one ENTp girl proceeded to verbally abuse someone in a public place and I hung my head.
Sure, we all have emotions. We all just express them differently.
As for istp's, i do think they have empathy and a lot of it it's just that it drains them to make a conscious effort to recognize it all the time. Just like we can think and be rational and have will power but that is mentally taxing.