[marzipan01]

I personally believe that if Jesus existed, he was probably an ENFJ. My reasons for saying thus are:

Fe lead?
Quite likely. Jesus enjoyed maintaining harmony above all else. Whilst he was fairly radical for his times, he wasn't as radical as he could be; e.g. Matthew 15. Further, he never felt it incumbent to address deeply troubling issues such as how gang rape is preferable to consensual homosexual sex... Now of course, this could be me being classic ENFP and applying my own Fi to the issue and extrapolating something that isn't there. But I personally believe that Jesus wielded Fe not Fi. He was very much so one to observe what was expected of him, which ironically was a very hefty amount.



The infamous tables
The overturning of the tables seems an "aha" moment to me á la Ni. Jesus took the inherent paradoxes of his world view, fused it to the Judean code already in place, and the solutions Jesus advocated were very much "universal" truths of their time. I don't personally believe he was very universalist, but I don't propose to get bogged down in the merits of Jesus' teachings.

Se whither?
Jesus appears to be described as acutely aware of his surroundings, he was after all, a revolutionary of sorts. Once again, this causes spontaneous actions. Feeding 500 and spontaneous crowd pleasing (Lazarus etc) suggest Se to me.

Ti
in recruiting his 12 disciples, Jesus took on a model. One which included one of his disciples betraying him. Whilst not a risk minimising model, it was all well thought out. With a model to logically present his case. E.g. Turn the other cheek does have a valid ideological basis, but I don't think Jesus was a Te user...


However, I could be wrong. I mean, Jesus' type is very moot in my opinion. But it's interesting to speculate. As I said earlier, it's possible he was an ENFP. But personally, I think ENFJ is more likely. A P function just doesn't seem to lend itself to him in my humble opinion. Of course, I didn't know the guy, so I don't think I can type him with any accuracy. The above is purely (and I mean purely 100%) academic and moot :).

It is also possible he was an ENFJ acting as an ENFP or an ENFP acting as an ENFJ in some cases. It is difficult to know for sure. But just on the basis of him traveling around and being a general nuisance to people and being more than okay with it it seems to me that he was an ENFP.
In order to use Fi one must assume Fe. I am ENFP with a stronger Ti than Te which is why I have difficulty in arguments. I have difficulty explaining myself as most of my arguments are deeply internal and come out in broad based generalizations that stir quarrels. I suppose this is why I identify with Jesus so much. He seemed to speak in a similar fashion. Although more poetically and, I believe, probably after having already learned the answer to what he was discussing. Most the time when ENFPs talk we are searching for an answer with words.

[MuChApArAdOx]

[QUOTE=etherealuntouaswithin;1277187]

I fail to see how this solidifies his position as an enfp.NFP's are very capable of killing people directly based upon their beliefs.

This line made me giggle. An ENFP in a bad mood or rage can be quite deadly, agreed :D I haven't killed anyone lately, although i my mind some have died a horrible death :p

[etherealuntouaswithin]

More to the point actually,He espoused a message of living your life in accordance with certain objective principles so that you can be met kindly in the next life.This is also Ni.Ne as a function doesn't concern itself with other realms or next lives.It explores the various ideas and possibilities of the moment for the knowlege it has previously gathered and strored

[marzipan01]

I'm responding to the relevent points of your post.




I fail to see how this solidifies his position as an enfp.NFP's are very capable of killing people directly based upon their beliefs

*Che Guevara
*V.I Lenin

Also,he surrendered himself to the crucifix b/c he "had a dialogue with god" seeing that it must be so,because it would have greater significance symbolically (Ni ruminations).While also forseeing that he would be betrayed by Judas (also Ni,future projection)



All of this is Ni.His messages were essentially to align yourself with God.To enlighten oneself to a degree in which they are aligned in spirit with the "father" (The unseen force that is divine in all things) This requires a pre-eminent introverted perspective..as extroverted perspectives are dependent on what is and explores various -idea- possibilites from what is concrete and real..they do not project their rhetoric toward other realms or distant dieties..this is indicative of being intune with one's unconscious..an introverted perspective that is expressed prophetically.

Also,The Budhha did travel from location to location to lecture.






Introverts can also go forth with the word (what is so difficult about understanding this).Particuarly intuitive feelers,who believe that their feeling oriented intuition is imperative and must be shared..(Hitler-an infj,Joan of Arc-an infp)





I've already explained that enfj's aren't necessarily dependent on an existing group to sustain themselves.Fe users,in particular with intuition,can create their own "mottos" with which to impose (Mao Tse Tsung-ENFJ)

Not enfj b/c jesus had predominant Ni with Fe to accentuate it (using objective moral standards to properly express his intuition to his followers).Introverted intuition is where the content of his sermons arise from..not Ne.

Che was an INFJ--exactly my point. From my understanding many NF's are represented in the military forces but the one NF type that is grossly under-represented is ENFP. ENFP's are the least likely to join, least likely to stick around.
Jesus' surrender on the crucifix--saying it was inevitable and thus forgiving Judas before he had even committed the act---this could also be seen as, the inevitable conclusion to the animosity that he stirred for spreading the word. He knew it was going to happen and that was okay because he was going to be made into a martyr. He was willing to die for the cause but not to kill anyone else and not to ask anyone else to be killed.
ENFps can use Ni. Ni is a nagging ID of my psyche. According to the cognitive functions quiz, I as an ENFP go: Ne, Ni, then Ti then Fe. Someone explain that to me.
So it's possible that Jesus was an ENFJ. I have a difficult time believing it, possibly because of my own bias: all the ENFJs I know happen to make judgments fairly quickly, jump to conclusions, etc. So, if Jesus was an ENFJ he would actually have to be the son of God. Whereas if he was an ENFP, he just had to be an ENFP going about from town to town.
If Jesus was an ENFJ, then, we're venturing into a totally different argument all together from my perspective.
I say this because he would have to be the son of God if he were an ENFJ because he would have to be strong enough not to be passive-aggressive, get really upset and start crying or run away. I mean it's possible. But you're not refuting my argument. It's just as likely he was an ENFP.
Past lives. INTps including Carl Jung and Buddha himself (both Ne users) were all about past lives and other realms. Ne, Ni. They're different and the same. They are connected/not different.

[etherealuntouaswithin]

Che was an INFJ--exactly my point. From my understanding many NF's are represented in the military forces but the one NF type that is grossly under-represented is ENFP. ENFP's are the least likely to join, least likely to stick around.
Jesus' surrender on the crucifix--saying it was inevitable and thus forgiving Judas before he had even committed the act---this could also be seen as, the inevitable conclusion to the animosity that he stirred for spreading the word. He knew it was going to happen and that was okay because he was going to be made into a martyr. He was willing to die for the cause but not to kill anyone else and not to ask anyone else to be killed.
ENFps can use Ni. Ni is a nagging ID of my psyche. According to the cognitive functions quiz, I as an ENFP go: Ne, Ni, then Ti then Fe. Someone explain that to me.
So it's possible that Jesus was an ENFJ. I have a difficult time believing it, possibly because of my own bias: all the ENFJs I know happen to make judgments fairly quickly, jump to conclusions, etc. So, if Jesus was an ENFJ he would actually have to be the son of God. Whereas if he was an ENFP, he just had to be an ENFP going about from town to town.
If Jesus was an ENFJ, then, we're venturing into a totally different argument all together from my perspective.

Ok then.Well,we wont be finding out any time soon i suppose.

I will argue no more.

[marzipan01]

More to the point actually,He espoused a message of living your life in accordance with certain objective principles so that you can be met kindly in the next life.This is also Ni.Ne as a function doesn't concern itself with other realms or next lives.It explores the various ideas and possibilities of the moment for the knowlege it has previously gathered and strored

He advocated to live to certain principles in this moment without thinking about the future. If anything he argued for people to be completely concerned with the present and not think about the future. One way to stop thinking about the future is to go so far beyond the present and satisfy how this moment is important. He said in the book of Matthew: Don't worry about tomorrow. Does not the Lord provide air for the birds to fly in and food for them to eat? Why would your father not do the same for you? ---Thus advocating for excluding Ni.

[etherealuntouaswithin]

He advocated to live to certain principles in this moment without thinking about the future. If anything he argued for people to be completely concerned with the present and not think about the future. One way to stop thinking about the future is to go so far beyond the present and satisfy how this moment is important. He said in the book of Matthew: Don't worry about tomorrow. Does not the Lord provide air for the birds to fly in and food for them to eat? Why would your father not do the same for you? ---Thus advocating for excluding Ni.

Believe what you wish.

[marzipan01]

Believe what you wish.

Every day I make an effort to believe my wishes. ;)

[Aleksei]

So what was all that about an angry Se/Ti outburst of anger? Aren't EIE's Fe, Ni, Te, Si?

I'm all confused now.

EIEs are Fe/Ni ego with Se/Ti super-id. Te-Si is the super-ego function, which is conscious but unvalued and mostly ignored.

The angry Se/Ti outburst is super-id usage, which is clumsy and gets strained to the limit very quickly.

Che was ENFP, incidentally.

[Eye of the Potato]

He advocated to live to certain principles in this moment without thinking about the future. If anything he argued for people to be completely concerned with the present and not think about the future. One way to stop thinking about the future is to go so far beyond the present and satisfy how this moment is important. He said in the book of Matthew: Don't worry about tomorrow. Does not the Lord provide air for the birds to fly in and food for them to eat? Why would your father not do the same for you? ---Thus advocating for excluding Ni.

He "advocated". He preached forgiveness, hung out with the low life's and outsiders, he said that a rich man getting into heaven was as difficult as fitting a camel through a needle. ( that's a very enfp type philosophy ) and the parables and double meanings in everything he said. He seems like an enfp preacher man to me.

I often think about other realms. I don't think it's exclussively a Ni thing. And we must remember that everyone uses all the functions, so just because someone does something that goes against what their type usually does, doesn't mean they aren't that type.

I'd just like to add that I think this is a ridiculous discusion since there is no proof the man actually existed. And the son of god? Aren't we all gods children? Why is he the "only" son of god? I never understood that. I'll still partake in it though cos it's a laugh.