[sassy.girl]

How to win your argument against "ISTJ Dad" and "ISFJ Mom" if you're an ENFP?



that is a totally hard task... I don't know how to tell them I'm a grown up
you know ENFP people are just extremely happy and very chill.. right? so they just think I always act nonsense or something...

any good advices?
and I'm really confuse how I get the "ENFP" pattern when both Mom and dad are "ISxx"

Thanksss...
Vivian

[chadlinski]

My Dad's ISFJ and my mums ESFJ .. so it's definitely challenging!

I'm fine with my Dad, no problems, but constanly clash with my Mom.
Over the years I've learned that there's no point trying to have an argument with Mom as she always has to win. It drives me insane, but it comes down to the fact that with the SJ's they're very much concrete thinkers, so very much see things in black and white and as they are currently, rather than having the desire to collect more information or have the foresight.

I still struggle with my feelings of their closemindedness, but I think both them AND ENFP's can be to the opposite extremes. Just keep reading up in this forum and books about your personality and theirs, it'll help I promise

[KrystRay]

SJ's like reason. If you can logically reason out ANYTHING, you can win.

[KrystRay]

Come to this battle prepared. We are good at this.

[pinkrasputin]

Come to this battle prepared. We are good at this.

I don't think my xSFJ mom likes reason at all. She is also an incredibly unhealthy 2. Her reasoning makes me go like this >> Because there is no reasoning in her world. It just "is" in her world.

And her perspective is the only one she will see. I get exhausted validating her perspective and seeing things from her perspective when she will never try to see from mine. At best, all I can do is help her to come up with her own conclusion and make her feel like it was what she was thinking all along.

So I can offer no advice. Because I'm at the point when my mom talks or nags, I envision how I will feel when she is lying in her coffin. While she is standing there in the present moment trying to power trip, guilt induce, or spew close-minded nonsense, I go inside my mind with that future vision and think "Damn I'm going to really miss her some day." This is how I survive with most of my family.

Arguments are pointless with my mom. She is never going to change. I can't really teach her that it's wrong to be racist or get her to understand that her martyrdom is controlling and abusive. I've been trying to do that for years. Now, I walk away and try not to indulge in conversations. But I still need to maintain my boundaries as an adult, and that's where clashes can start.

As far as the OP, I wouldn't bother trying to prove them wrong. It won't work and you can get some serious drama placed on you. But I do think you are going to have to validate yourself over and over for being who you are instead of being dependent on their approval. You take pride on being your own unique person. They may value you being compliant with structure. They can't change who you are and make you what you are not. You know that and hold it inside. Keep focusing on how strong you are, and how well you can hold your head up in the face of adversity.

You can't win. Let it go. At some point we all have to accept our parents for who they are.

[Moby]

Arguments are pointless with my mom. She is never going to change.

I agree. My mom and sister are ESFJs so while a bit more emotional they are from the SJ subtype. Yes, they see a world where most rules are good rules and the idea of rules as a whole are sheer brilliance. As an ENFP I'm really independent and try defy or destroy rules I think arn't fair or hurt people. Unfortunately, they don't see it that way. If they believe in a rule, that rule is pretty much law.

My mom's pretty religious in a strict sense. Even as an adult she'd try to get after me for drinking or smoking my Cubans or whatever else. We had some big fights which ended in the "As long as you keep your high GPA, and keep succeeding in your jobs and career and I don't have to pick you up from the cops or in a coffin what you do can be tolerated" line.

That's worked out well, as if I'd stop my penchant for the occasional party and my love of liquor because someone said so.

[tooboku]

Good luck. That's all I have to say.

My ESFJ Sistercan't get a thing past my ISTJ Dad. I avoid arguing with my Dad because I always win the reasoning portion of the argument and he runs off upset. He'll throw tantrums and use the "I'm your father" card. At this point however, he's come to accept that I have a good reason for anything I do. He will give advice if it is something he knows he's more experienced than me at but other than that, it has taken a very long time for him to trust my judgement.

Si dominants can be really stubborn and it doesn't matter what logic you present unless they decide beforehand that they'll trust you. For the ISTJ Dad though, target the emotional argument and if you can win him over, he'll have an easier time with your ISFJ Mom. You've got the "Daddy's little girl" card. My INFP sister can get away with murder.

[little infinity]

My advice: Don't argue against them.

Seriously. I know it's nearly impossible, but it will save you tons of heartache, stress, and a bad home environment (assuming you're still living with them).

[sassy.girl]

Thanks for all your comments everybody... That really help me a lot :)

[Linnifae]

I have an ISTJ dad and an ISFJ mom too!
My dad and I normally got along great...most of the time. My mom and I *could* get along well, but she has a lot of emotional problems so it was hard to know how to deal with her since she wasn't always consistant.

Basically though I find that well thought out reasons (followed by actions to back them up) are the most powerful arguments towards any cause you may have. The worst thing you can do is show too much emotion, it seems to make them feel you are proving their point for them.