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ENFP's + the military

[ENFP] 
21K views 44 replies 29 participants last post by  sriram1082003 
#1 ·
Okay, so I had some time to think the other day ago, and I was thinking. I think that ENFP's (and probably INFP's as well) would probably detest the miltary. Now before anyone criticizes me for posting this, please listen to my reasoning as to why I believe that most ENFP's would hate the military. Here is why I believe that most ENFP and INFP personalities hate the military....

  • It involves strong organization skills that most ENFP's lack.
  • It involves killing and violence, which most ENFP's tend to hate
  • It involves serious planning and self discipline which most ENFP's hate.
  • It involves listening directing to orders and doing something exactly like the are told. From my experience most ENFP's want to put their own creative touch on everything, and the miltary is not a creative person's world.
  • In involves people constantly yelling at you. Which many ENFP's hate as well.

What do you think, I think that most people with Ne and Fi would hate the military, what about you? Oh, and if any ENFP's or INFP's have been in the military, please discuss your thoughts here? Do you hate it? Did you love it? What was it like for you?
 
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#2 ·
TGO - I agree with you. I could not contemplate a career in which I would be put into a situation where I might have to kill someone because someone said that I had to.

I have many friends who are in the military but they are mostly rocket scientists (seriously) or physicians and I asked them if they could kill someone. One friend in particular, comes from a Buddhist faith and his rational response to me is that he is in a position in the military where he would not be in a "combat situation" so he would not have to deal with that ethical dilemma. I said that was a bit of BS because if you are in the military then by definition I would expect those people who do chose that career path would be able to put themselves into a combat situation and potentially kill someone if ordered to do so.

I know that I never could.
 
#45 ·
TGO - I agree with you. I could not contemplate a career in which I would be put into a situation where I might have to kill someone because someone said that I had to. I have many friends who are in the military but they are mostly rocket scientists (seriously) or physicians and I asked them if they could kill someone. One friend in particular, comes from a Buddhist faith and his rational response to me is that he is in a position in the military where he would not be in a "combat situation" so he would not have to deal with that ethical dilemma. I said that was a bit of BS because if you are in the military then by definition I would expect those people who do chose that career path would be able to put themselves into a combat situation and potentially kill someone if ordered to do so. I know that I never could.
Iam a enpf but i want badly to bocome a soldier
 
#3 ·
Here is my opinion on the bullets mentioned:

It involves strong organization skills that most ENFP's lack.
One reason why I think it would be good. It would teach the unorganized to get there act together and be more self disciplined and increase there organization.

It involves killing and violence, which most ENFP's tend to hate
I agree.

It involves serious planning and self discipline which most ENFP's hate.
I'm sure some people would hate this but i would enjoy to get self disciplined really. It would really improve myself when I get out so I can get things I need to get done. You don't really need to go to the military to get this done but it would help. Self discipline is essential in things if you want to get things done. Besides "Disciple is remembering what you want." so make sure you're there for a reason. The number 1 reason I think i would go is having college payed for.

It involves listening directing to orders and doing something exactly like the are told. From my experience most ENFP's want to put their own creative touch on everything, and the miltary is not a creative person's world.
I guess this could improve your listening skills but the rest I agree.

In involves people constantly yelling at you. Which many ENFP's hate as well.
STRONGLY agree. I was an umpire for baseball last year and if anyone has ever been one, you are constantly being yelled at, + when you don't know what you're doing, and I'm sure in the military this is on an extreme scale.

I would only join it for college being paid for like I said. So I would just think to myself everyday, if I was feeling down, "I'm doing this for my future, college...college..college..." things like that to motivate me. It is a high rare chance I would join, so count me as someone not to join.

Just my view on things. Thanks for reading! (if you did:laughing:)
 
#6 ·
Although I believe learning self discipline is a good thing, I would hate to be in the military. Furthermore, it is extremely difficult for me to be with a guy who is in or has been in the military. I think we are just way too different.

I do know of at least one ENFP here on the forum who is in the military. That's a trip for me. I mean do you even remain an ENFP if you've done military service? I would think something like that would have a huge affect on your personality. :confused:
 
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#8 ·
Me personally I think killing anyone is wrong. The thing is I love the military and what they do for us but i do not support the killing of innocents. I myself its hard to belive but I'm joining the US Navy next year as a medical personal and i might be placed on a Hospital ship. Its always been a dream of mine to travel the world and make the world a better place. not with bullets but with band aids and love :proud:
 
#10 ·
I know an INFP who was in the military...it's a personal story, but he explained me why he joined. He did because he was convinced to do by his parents and all, and seems it's not the worse experience in his life, but doesn't love it much. In fact, he's quitted.
To me it was pretty surprising that he had been there. But everyone has its surprises.
In fact, I know people who want to be in the army and oh (classmates), we are always fighting xDD i don't get along with them
 
#11 ·
there are a few ENFPs here who were or are military. i think mikesierra was one of em and amongst the rabble also did some time back in the day. i also tried out to become an officer in the military before getting injured during the selection process and going home.

there are some misconceptions here that keep floating around, though.
  1. most people who serve have never nor will they ever have to shoot or kill someone
  2. the majority of any branch of the military is made up of "support" personnel. the "infantry" or "trigger-pullers" usually amount to only 10-15% of the entire force. the other vast majority are in some kind of support function that helps those trigger pullers do their jobs. this includes mechanics, truck drivers, cooks, janitors, computer admin, human resources, lawyers, doctors, etc.
  3. the military does not necessarily "teach" you discipline. you're thinking about training. most of that discipline just flies out the window once they're in the force.

personally, i think if you're an ENFP and you see a military recruiter approach you with his "Be all you can be" mumbo-jumbo, you throw feces at him as you run away screaming.
 
#12 ·
I was in the military for five years. That was the absolute worst time in my life, and the reasons for that are all listed in the first post.

I think the experience actually amplified the parts of my personality that didn't fit well in that environment. For instance, I still haven't gotten a haircut since I left because it's just so distasteful to me to have to conform to someone else's standards of appearance or behavior that I can't bring myself to walk into a barbershop. I figure I may just as well embrace my inner hippie at this point in my life. :happy:
 
#14 ·
The reasons for which xNFPs seem to join military are far from a real like for military, seems.
Like they want to get away or something. i mean, an ENFP with total freedom would never join.
 
#16 ·
Since I am the only one in this thread ACTUALLY in the military, I'll give you my opinion.

I have been in for two years. I did not do so good in bootcamp due to my lack of organizational skills but I got away with a lot because of my personality. After serving almost three years (still in for another 3) I have to say it has made me mature very fast, especially professionally. I still have problems with organization, however, I take a different look at it. I see it has if I get everything out of the way then I can lay back and do what I want. It's not the whole killing thing for me. I look at it as if I HAD to kill, I would just do it because I took the oath. I look at it as a sense of moral value and duty.

Also, being an ENFP helps out a lot with communication with officers.
 
#17 ·
My dad is a Col. in the Air Force, and he's a complete ENFP. He's been doing it for 26 years now, and he really likes it. I think the difference is wether you enter as an enlisted or not. He started as an officer, and comes from the business side of things. He actually is a big part of our Foreign aid, so he travels all around the world.

He and I have talked about it, and we both agree that in general, ENFP's aren't cut out for military service if you aren't going in as an officer. Too many directions, and you know how we hate that. :laughing: He told me that is was really hard at first discipling himself enough to listen and follow orders, but he loved what he was doing enough that he was willing to make the sacrafice. He also said that being an ENFP helped when you had to talk a higher up out of doing something really stupid. :tongue:
 
#18 ·
I've meet alot of military officers a good handful were ENFPs and were very good with people and very interactive with enlisted they tend to be very personal and attentive and care slot for there subordinates
 
#19 ·
Really, this is intriguing. Did they seem to be a little different from most ENFP, in terms of personality? Were they harder, more organized, more planned, more confrontation, and less open minded?
 
#21 ·
yes, I would HATE the military. The closest I would get would be a "boot camp work out" and even that would bother me, as I know many people get injuries when they don't listen to their body and instead listen to their instructor who is pushing them too hard. I know someone who got a bad knee injury that required surgery form one of those things.

Back on topic, yes all of the reasons explained in the post I COMPLETELY agree with. I would absolutely hate it because it's against my values.

However, if the military were run by ISTPs (which it isn't), then it might not be so bad, as long as I didn't need to kill anyone myself.
 
#23 ·
it involves strong organization skills that most ENFP's lack
.
Yeah I am messy and tend to lose army items.
It involves killing and violence, which most ENFP's tend to hate
Yeah killing is pointless and I dont even have killer instincts.
It involves serious planning and self discipline which most ENFP's hate.
Agree :D
It involves listening directing to orders and doing something exactly like the are told. From my experience most ENFP's want to put their own creative touch on everything, and the miltary is not a creative person's world.
Yeah and I am not good doing things literally, I mean I need even walk correctly or they yell at me. We should be like faceless robots, like clone army xD

In involves people constantly yelling at you. Which many ENFP's hate as well.
Yeah yelling makes me angry and nervous, I dont like either criticism. We also get positive feedback rarely, usually leaders just yell at us and I am like " I would love to punch u in to face ;D "

I am now in army, but not because I wanted xD, here in Finland we just have compulsory military service and we just train about 6-12 months how to defend our country. I am not so into to warthings and I am not so very motivated to be there so in the beginning I had a lot problems there but after start I got easy maintenance job so to be honest I even enjoy being there. I have a lot free-time there (unlike 90% of others xD ) so I can go to gym or be at computer etc... I have got a lot friends there too. Worst part is forest camps, I mean here in finland can be like -30 and it is not funny be a week in forest.
If war would come, I would travel fast to sweden etc so even tho finland is great country to live I would not sacrifice my life or kill dozens of innocent men only for keeping finlands independence.
So even tho I may look like there : lazy or retard because I am not so good in logical and organisating things, - when I am old I will recall army as a intresting experiense with some good friends.
 
#24 ·
.
Yeah I am messy and tend to lose army items.

Yeah killing is pointless and I dont even have killer instincts.

Agree :D

Yeah and I am not good doing things literally, I mean I need even walk correctly or they yell at me. We should be like faceless robots, like clone army xD


Yeah yelling makes me angry and nervous, I dont like either criticism. We also get positive feedback rarely, usually leaders just yell at us and I am like " I would love to punch u in to face ;D "

I am now in army, but not because I wanted xD, here in Finland we just have compulsory military service and we just train about 6-12 months how to defend our country. I am not so into to warthings and I am not so very motivated to be there so in the beginning I had a lot problems there but after start I got easy maintenance job so to be honest I even enjoy being there. I have a lot free-time there (unlike 90% of others xD ) so I can go to gym or be at computer etc... I have got a lot friends there too. Worst part is forest camps, I mean here in finland can be like -30 and it is not funny be a week in forest.
If war would come, I would travel fast to sweden etc so even tho finland is great country to live I would not sacrifice my life or kill dozens of innocent men only for keeping finlands independence.
So even tho I may look like there : lazy or retard because I am not so good in logical and organisating things, - when I am old I will recall army as a intresting experiense with some good friends.
You are the second person from Finland I know (the other IRL) and you guys are awesome!... anyways, I really enjoyed this post, because even though ENFP's are not militant in design, we will look at it as an experience... I love that... our need to experience new things.... the way we love things to change. :) so fun.
 
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#25 ·
I'm a solid ENFP and have been in the Reserves for 7 years, looking to go regular force now.

What I'm going to do is tell you what I've learned to do in my years of training, then why an ENFP would enjoy doing these things. I'll briefly discuss the strengths and weaknesses or limitations that I've encountered and how this has affected my view on life in general.

I was an Infantry Officer for 4 years and have been a Logitics Officer for 3. First, I was taught how to walk, talk and act like a soldier on basic training, then how to think in a logical and roughly linear manner for planning and executing missions based on your analysis of orders. Then training became hard.

In a 3 month course I learned how to lead a group of 8-12 people in small party tasks, performed in the field using the planning methodology I'd learned in the previous course. Here is where it all came together, going nights and days without sleep (6 days, 5 nights, no sleep, 300 calories a day), performing as a soldier both individually, in pairs, and part of the whole team, in the following tasks: navigation: navigation by night and day, living in a swamp, patrolling for information, conducting patrols in order to engage the enemy, fighting the enemy and pushing their their location, digging trenches and enforcing our position, repelling enemy attacks, urban warfare tactics, VIP extraction, first aid (simulated and real when things went not so well), marching with 75 lbs for many miles/kilometers, operating the our rifle, pistol, light machine gun, general purpose machine gun, trip flares, paraflares, participating as well as planning and conducting conventional live fire ranges with rifles, pistols, machine guns and grenades, and finally coordinate and call for artillery fire. All of the above was primarily at the participation level but in order to pass the course we were evaluated at the leadership level, because we were officers looking to lead troops. All army officers must have these skills regardless of their trade.

The 3 month infantry platoon commander course made the seem easy and was absolutely brutal. In my group of 12 guys we had 4 of us survive the first week in the field, bodies were breaking everywhere and people were smoked and shutting down so badly the advanced infantry tactics officer and subject matter expert on asymmetrical warfare came and paid us a visit on the 3rd night to tell us they would accept requests to quit instead of furthering the risk of injury. Some of us took him up on it and went home, some didn't and got broken physically in the remaining weeks. Others stayed but crumbled mentally and were removed from course. I failed off half way through on conducting hasty attacks, which I will discuss below. I have since moved on to Logistics where I was trained how to be a functional tactical operations center (TOC) officer in the role of facilitating the command net as well as the admin net, briefing commanders on the situation in a 2 min presentation, administering the logistics of 1000 personnel including emergency operations involving the procurement of chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) warfare conditions, citing a company of logistics vehicles to perform resupply in the field, transporting an entire 1000 vehicle convoy in a combat condition tactical withdrawal. I've learned to do a lot. Why would an ENFP do all this?

Why would an ENFP willingly do this?

We've got these visions of things can and quite importantly should be. We inspire others. We're catalysts for success and are willing to make sacrifices most would never consider. We're always on a personal quest to learn about ourselves, do good things (unless we've joined the dark side) and further other's development. We're preoccupied with morale. These are of little initial or objective value to the military, however, they are force multipliers. A platoon with high moral, who understands how they function, how to keep others functioning, growing, pushing and making sacrifices in order to achieve something that they hold dear, is a near-unstoppable force. When this is combined with the pure get-this-done functional utilitarian natural focus on the army, you produce elite troops with an unbreakable camaraderie.

There is an enormous sense of satisfaction and self worth in turning people into far more than what they were before, or were as individuals. When put to Good use, you may feel like you have found your calling. I have found my limits, mentally and physically, to be far beyond what I thought them to be at first. I am thankful for that kind of development. We ENFPs throw ourselves into things and the army requires that you do so. It's feast or famine. I thrive.

Where I wither and feel like dying inside, is in dealing with a serious lack of recognition for achievement. This has been primarily due to the environment of the reserves where they expect a high rate of attrition in their numbers over the years. You get in, do your time, get out: rinse and repeat. Therefore, not only is there a lack of superiors who are around to witness your long-time outstanding achievements, they then think it to be the norm and the recognition and praise that was given before goes silent. Having a personally rewarding job is one thing, having a thankless job is another. Being forced to do things a certain way can be frustrating but also reassuring if you learn the reasoning for it, and support that reasoning.

The system itself is a haven for those who are relatively incompetent and uncaring, who are careerists, self-centered backstabbing monstrosities of human beings and if they're above you in the chain of command, you will get fucked. Because they can. They will. It is who they are, and if they can quantify and qualify their decisions to their superiors, no one will consider listening to your concerns. This can be extraordinarily disheartening.

With our focus and drive in a given area of interest, when the interest wains the drive and focus plummet, drastically reducing our output if required to remain where we are. Arguably, this is a sound reason for not joining the military in any fashion as this will inevitably happen for an indeterminate period of time.

As for being yelled at, having to kill, focusing on the disconnected goal-oriented aspect of the military, yes, these do not naturally sit well with any ENFP, who would rather everyone simply get along nicely and are more inclined to be people oriented than results based. Having the vision supporting you in what you do, in what you want to accomplish in the military, that is an extremely supportive and force multiplying aspect of our personality. We can be the sole person who has taken the initiative to reinvigorate a large group of people, basically as their morale officer, and set the example of what you can do when you put your mind to it, that things really are okay and they will be too. It's contagious, and the support you bring others changes their world. If you get some personal thanks in private, you are alight with pride.

While I have not touched on or talked in detail about everything that has been raised so far, I do intend this to give more perspective for discussion on whether or not the military is suitable for ENFPs. I would argue it is not a good choice for most ENFPs but for some it exceptionally good.
 
#44 ·
Hey Anaesthetic,
Thank You So Much for taking the time out to write this answer. I'd be really grateful if you could offer me some advice

I am interested in joining the military to learn Discipline, self defence and learn organisational skills but the army in my country(the land of Gandhi) has a very poor track record of upholding human rights and my community is at the brink of genocide .I really want to protect my community but I don't know how to go about it. I'm around 23 years of age with a Bachelor's degree in Electronics & Communication(which took me 2 extra years to get through and I barely managed to scrape by).I'm not sure what I want to do now(I'm considering studying for an M.B.A or Media).I need some clarity on how to proceed in life
It would be a huuuge help if you could help me out a little .Also, can you tell me what you do if you see a human rights violation by the military?

I'm indebted to you if you actually read through all of my sob story. May the Lord Almighty be your guide and friend in this world and the next.

Thanks a million
 
#27 ·
I think that ENFP's (and probably INFP's as well) would probably detest the miltary.
I detest it. I would literally rather die than be in the military. I'm a libertarian, so I am not big on the government in general... especially the brainwashing that goes into the military. Fucking sheeple, man.
 
#28 ·
It's a bit mundane and boring at times, but Here are some reasons an ENFP would love the military...


Fills our strong need to be respected and to give respect (wouldn't have to ask for it, it's mandatory)
If we are officers or sergeants gives us the place to use our leadership ability
It's cool to be part of an actual recognized system sometimes rather than creating our own job position
Fills our need for community
Gives us the structure we often lack
The ranking system gives us something to channel our limitless energy into and be rewarded for
Gives us the opportunity to live and die for a cause we believe in (ENFPs wouldn't join if they don't believe in it)
As an ENFP woman it would be awesome to be around all the masculine guys !
Guy ENFPs would appreciate the challenge and competition among the other guys
 
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#33 ·
I liked to be in army, cant complain but the truth is that ENFP:s and INFP:s sucks there.

Why:

1. U have to be: organized - we are kinda messy.
2.U have to have think logically- we dont think often logically.
3.U have to be practical and learn new practical things fast- we dont learn practical things fast either good at.
4.U have to believe the system- Hard to see that any INFP/ENFP would believe the system.
5.U never get positive feedback but if u screw up ur life will be living hell -
6.Nobody cares a shit what u think - most of we have own values, opinions....
7.U have to be cold-blooded because army is all about killing, u like it or not, dont be naive- we are not cold-blooded.

Great experience it sure was but I woulndt recommend it for any enfp/infp
 
#34 ·
I had a very difficult time adjusting to the military myself. Went in and learned very early that I just had to not talk much and become very quiet... It seemed to be dominated by SJ types that thought everyone needed to be like them... The other part that drove me nuts was the lack of possibilities and I counted the days down to when I would depart from the service. I somehow got an honorable discharge and even was awarded a medal for saving one guys life that got shot in the head in Kirkuk Iraq; showed up late to that ceremony and didn't want to be apart of it because they didn't acknowledge the other guy that died that I tried to revive. Made me angry with how they would only want to highlight the good that was done and somehow make the other go away.

As far as the yelling you get used to it and find yourself doing the same; self discipline was a decent thing to pick up... I suppose I am now usually never late to anything... Being told what to do was actually a huge stress relief to be honest; alot of the folks above me I viewed as not so intelligent... So when I did do things and followed orders (from the numb skulls) I would be asked why, then explain then I wasn't the one who got the hammer... The thing that was most difficult was honestly 12 to 15 hour shifts with lots of sleep deprivation and the threat of losing rank for sleep while on dull posts...
 
#35 ·
I think it is a matter of personal values in some way . If you ideologically support the military's POV than I think it it could be relatively tolerable. The things about being an officer sound really true, much better than an enlisted.

I mean one of the biggest things i look for is a sense of community, I can tell you that military and ex military have a strong sense of community... I don't think it is worth the strain on the person though.

How do people here think of the peace corps. ? I am a nominee, I went through the interview and every thing, but I am no sure about it. One aspect I really like about it is the sense of community, but the 2 year commitment is a little unsettling. I love the idea of it though... I am on the fence I think it could be great. During your service you are basically left alone. It could't be more unlike the military in that regard.
 
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