[Tridentus]

especially concerning people you really like.

i just wanna know because this is one of the issues i've had with my life. with everyone i've gone out with, or got "together" with, it's just sorta happened naturally. i'd meet them, we'd be friends who secretly knew we fancied each other and we'd go "for a walk" or get cosy one time, and guided by my intuition it felt like it was always going to happen from the first moment i met the person. as long as everything feels natural, it goes perfectly.
the problem i have is when i really like someone but i don't know them that well. you know the scene, it's that girl in class that you use some excuses to chat with, or some girl you met at a martial arts club where no one really socialises with each other outside it, or godforbid your friend's sister. obviously in this situation you have to go through the whole awkwardness of asking her out, and going to a formal date.. I - HATE - IT. i can't stand it, it feels so set and rigid. it's like you do this, do this, do this, go for the snog. and unless the girl is a very natural easygoing person it does put pressure on me to be a certain amount of charming to ease things up. basically it makes me feel a little fake, and when i feel fake i don't act like my natural self. ideally i'd like to ask someone as a friend, but then you have to say "as a friend" and then the girl gets the message that you want to be friends only.

i usually pass those girls up these days because i already know it's not going to end well, i just can't bring myself to put myself through the whole process, and also when im not acting naturally guided by my intuition it feels like i have to check the fricking dating manual to know what step is next. of course this means that im missing out on half the girls my intuition tells me i would probably normally be a fit for.

this is largely for the guys but the girls can answer too if they relate. have you guys been able to incorporate your natural selves into formal dating? how well does it work out for you? what were you like at my age (18)? whatever else you think is relevant.

i just wanna iron this out for myself, and it'd really help to get your experiences.
thnx

[Musikaman]

I cherish both situations. There are certainly good and bad to both. I mean, with the whole natural thing, you're seemingly more likely to question if things are moving too fast, if you really know the other person, etc. That doesn't usually happen with a few planned dates and a little more of a relaxed time line.


Now, as for the whole dating thing. Yeah, asking someone out can be tricky, but once you know you're going on a date... it's time to ENFP it up! We're the masters of intuitive feeling! Many romantic gestures should take place.

For example: I was dating a woman a year ago. The first date I showed up to dinner and handed her a rose. I had two more pinned in each sleeve of my coat. She received one as we were out walking after dinner and the other after I walked her to her car. She didn't seem to have a problem with another date for some odd reason.

Movies are bad. No movies! Maybe... maybe a drive-in. Maybe. For like a 4th or 5th date. Maybe. Movies allow too little interaction.

The point is, use the opportunities of dating someone to get to know them and to wow them a little. It can be rewarding in multiple ways and rarely fails to impress the other person with the thought you put into things. ... ... ... You'll get laid more often than not too.

[Mirlong]

When it comes to asking out a girl I really don't know but have liked from a distance I usually invite her to a concert,party, or anything where there will be a group of people, that way it's easier for me to be myself cause there's a lot of people around and it feels less like a formal date than just inviting someone to a good time. If that goes well then I'll ask her out on a real date or maybe to just chill and see what happens.

[Tridentus]

that's what i like about it though.. there don't have to be any labels or meanings, you just ARE.. i take your point about not knowing how fast you're going though. but i mean friendship doesn't have to be about having labels and a SET time to spend time with someone, you just hang out. in my point of view dating only exists because it's necessary tbh.
also i don't seem to be in line with other ENFPs in the whole roses/flowers gesture business.. i tend to romanticise "moments" more, like being somewhere or doing something spontaneous.

maybe it's one of those things that changes as you get older. although the formal date is more of an american thing i think. i've been on one formal date and it felt weird. almost everyone i know will tend to go out with ppl they meet around their social circle. maybe that's why. it still doesn't solve the problem for me..

[RhoAlphaNuAlpha]

I guess Im a female so Ill try and put down my preferences..and what I do?

I agree with what you guys said above, I dont like date dates. I like "hanging" out (and not to say extremely casual, I mean..somewhere where I can be comfortable enough to see where its going before anything extreme happens).
My perfect situation is this..
Your friends first, or at least know each other a little bit, but you know theres something good going on between you.
I like being invited to a party from the guy, its a less pressured atmosphere. I can get to know him, hang out with friends, mingle, go back and forth and I feel little obligation tied to him which is nice at first.

If things are going really well, Ill be talking to him the whole night, it will be very obvious and well probably have our little world thing going on. I think thats when I know its good to hang out one on one. The "little world" thing is what I like. Usually why I tend to drift towards introverts with good social skills.

When my boyfriend currently and I just met, he took me to his bands show. It was pretty awesome times and we were stuck to each other the whole time, talking to each other, very engaged, laughing a lot, he was being very nice and sweet. After the show we went for a drive and he said, "that was really fun (turns off the music)...lets just talk" so we drove for an hour around the New Jersey shoreline, it wasnt the most stereotypically romantic thing ever but...it was pretty cool. Finally he dropped me off and we kissed.

Leaving it at just that made me want to see him soo badly from then on.

Usually it starts out like that for me, the guy and I will be engaged with only each other out of all these other people in a social situation.

Aww...writing that made me remember when I first met my ISTJ boyfriend. Damn we had fun.

[Tridentus]

rho that is pretty much perfectly on the money. i know exactly what you mean, where you have this unspoken connection between you where you know you like each other but neither of you needs to say or do anything to prove it.

basically the gist of my post is "friends first", i hate dating because i want to be friends first, even for a little while it helps.

but the reason why i posted this was because basically my intuition sends off alarm bells whenever i want to ask someone out on a formal date, wheras i'd love any opportunity to hang out with them as friends and seduce them that way , but im not sure whether im wrong (doubtful) or whether my Ne is having a subconscious insight into what the best action is. what it basically tells me is that "dating would be rubbish". unless we could do something spontaneous together, dating involves very little flexible fun, i think that's why.

i was just wondering if other ENFPs felt this way, and if they did whether they stuck to what they liked or whether they dated anyway, and if so how relationships which started from formal dating went. i basically have serious doubts about the merits of a relationship that doesn't come naturally, and certainly i couldn't imagine myself marrying someone i'd done the whole "asking out" crap with.

[RhoAlphaNuAlpha]

rho that is pretty much perfectly on the money. i know exactly what you mean, where you have this unspoken connection between you where you know you like each other but neither of you needs to say or do anything to prove it.

basically the gist of my post is "friends first", i hate dating because i want to be friends first, even for a little while it helps.

but the reason why i posted this was because basically my intuition sends off alarm bells whenever i want to ask someone out on a formal date, wheras i'd love any opportunity to hang out with them as friends and seduce them that way , but im not sure whether im wrong (doubtful) or whether my Ne is having a subconscious insight into what the best action is. what it basically tells me is that "dating would be rubbish". unless we could do something spontaneous together, dating involves very little flexible fun, i think that's why.

i was just wondering if other ENFPs felt this way, and if they did whether they stuck to what they liked or whether they dated anyway, and if so how relationships which started from formal dating went. i basically have serious doubts about the merits of a relationship that doesn't come naturally, and certainly i couldn't imagine myself marrying someone i'd done the whole "asking out" crap with.

I do understand this a lot :) Glad my post could somewhat confirm some similarities

One on one dates I enjoy and appreciate so much more after a couple group things.
Honestly its not that inside I dont want to be alone around him, because I really do, its just a bit nerve wracking for me in the beginning. Being around people lets me be myself without having to put up that "date" face. I dont like "date" face, it feels dishonest to me so its better to be around people at least for the first two experiences.

After that Im very comfortable with one on one.
Movies as Musikaman said are never a good idea for me in the start, not enough conversation.

Actually my boyfriend and I seldom go to movies even now. I complain about how theyre expensive. I get bored. Movies are my introvert time, when Im by myself and I dont need to consider interacting with others.

[WMDistraction]

Well, seeing as how the only two successful pursuits in my life (Girl-wise, anyway. ) weren't formal, I'm going to say "No." When I tried to be formal with a girl, I just became more and more awkward to the point of either me giving up, or scaring her away. :P It's way more natural for me to be extremely casual and "me" around a girl than to try to formalize the relationship until an "official" date occurs. In fact, my current relationship started with us making out.

[Tridentus]

i like how you guys are hitting every nail on the head
it's very comforting to know that you guys know what im on about. if i ever talked about this to a non-ENFP IRL they'd be like "wtf" and i'd end up feeling like i must be crazy.
thnx

[JimmyD]

Hey man, I just recently turned 20 and all I can say is I totally understand where your coming from, and the best advice I can give is, read 'the Game, by Neil Strauss' YOUR LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN!!, Going out with woman you like will never, EVER! be a problem. I got the book at 18, then delved into a bit deeper, be a bit careful though, because you can easily become obsessed with it, but the main advantage is that you'll know how speak to any woman you want in ANY situation you want with any underlining meaning you want with EASE!

And No, it's not a sleezy chat up line book lol