[chimeric]

Ne-Fi ramble, read at your peril, yadda yadda. Sorry for the academic-thesissy thread title.


At first exposure, I was skeptical of MBTI, cognitive functions, and particularly the Enneagram (which seemed like hokey new-agey BS). However, PerC has taught me a lot about people -- in particular, why they react to things the way they do and the nature of their ethical code (the structure behind it and how it was formed).

Sure it's qualitative and full of holes, but I don't think this knowledge would have been feasible before the internet. A very diverse group (in just about every sense) forming a network where good ideas slowly bubble to the top and bad ones thud through a hole in the floor. Where people (mostly...) challenge each other and support each other's growth. Anyway, it certainly wouldn't have been feasible for me to have this knowledge, with my "I have to experience it to understand it" brain. Prior to PerC, I certainly noticed patterns behind others' thinking, but I didn't have this rich an understanding of them.

I often think about how online text, as a medium, influences the nature of interactions here.

For instance:

Smileys are a symbol for how words are intended. They're much simpler to decode than body language/vocal tone, even when used ironically. And if smileys are absent and it's not carefully spelled out in words(/font styles/gifs/creative punctuation), it's easy to make errors in gauging emotional subtext, even for people who offline are great at figuring that sort of thing out. Therefore, online, those people are (generally) more aware that misreading emotional subtext happens. I think that helps level the playing field in an interesting way.

Another thing that I think does is knowledge of typology. If an INTJ says a comment that sounds jack-assy, you learn that it quite possibly actually...isn't. That certain things need to be spelled out when addressing an IxTP that wouldn't need to be spelled out when addressing an ENFP (and vice versa, I'm sure).

Anyway, I'm curious about your thoughts on this. (All types welcome to comment.)






Oh! Also curious to hear your observations about the different writing styles of the various types. That I find fascinating. (Like this "oh!" bit edited in at the end of my post. Pretty xNxP of me. The constant parentheses too. And is the expressive punctuation and formatting especially common with ENFPs? Hm.)


Tagging @froovyjosie, @Essay, @Alysaria, @Bumblyjack, @madhatter, @Kayness, @LXPilot, @Compassionate Misanthrope, @garmypoo

[NaughyChimp]

For me, the veil of supposed-anonymity lets me write more freely about certain subjects than I would speak about them IRL.

[SocioApathetic]

I try my very best to communicate here as I would in "real life". Still, this use of the smiley to compensate for lack of body language and reading of facial expressions is fascinating. Yes, I do believe tone can often be misconstrued (especially here) but I do not use smileys and such for one simple reason: I am not actually smiling. I will use it if I actually find myself smiling at what another has said or an amusing thought I have expressed.

As long as I know I am not being passive-aggressive or hostile, I can always explain to others if and when they misunderstand my meaning.

[Figure]

@chimeric

Was it you, way back when, whom I (probably) bored with my linguistic research?

A lot of these points

Another thing that I think does is knowledge of typology. If an INTJ says a comment that sounds jack-assy, you learn that it quite possibly actually...isn't. That certain things need to be spelled out when addressing an IxTP that wouldn't need to be spelled out when addressing an ENFP (and vice versa, I'm sure).

Prior to PerC, I certainly noticed patterns behind others' thinking, but I didn't have this rich an understanding of them.

PerC has taught me a lot about people -- in particular, why they react to things the way they do and the nature of their ethical code (the structure behind it and how it was formed).

Are very similar things I would agree to claim to be "payouts" to the study of typology.

I think the "core" of your ideas here is the idea of projection - that is, the way the representation of something, be it conceivable meaning or whatever, is separated from that very thing. It's really a similar thing with people and typology as it is with language and interpretation - perhaps because these two go hand-in hand. I could sit here and tahp awwt all mah werds like mahh kuuuhnseptyuns uv a cuuuuuuuntry folk, but actually be a very different person underneath the facade.

In this sense, I think the same rules as typology apply to typological language studies - we can't really know type by language, but we might be able to make an rough estimate if we know the CF's intimately.

I know a lot of people bash socionics on here, but this source lists words commonly used by their cognitive functions. It's not really official, but just a list that people of various types have compiled. Perhaps the same could be said for the CF's we usually study on here too?

[Alysaria]

Knowledge of communication style is a good tool to have for basic social interaction. Some people use it for sales pitches. My ISTJ aunt uses MBTI in Human Resources. :)

I keep trying to write something clever and brilliant, but I have a cold. My brain is so full of blah I'm surprised I can function at all. :P

[chimeric]

For me, the veil of supposed-anonymity lets me write more freely about certain subjects than I would speak about them IRL.

I'm curious if that is as true for xxTxs.

I try my very best to communicate here as I would in "real life". Still, this use of the smiley to compensate for lack of body language and reading of facial expressions is fascinating. Yes, I do believe tone can often be misconstrued (especially here) but I do not use smileys and such for one simple reason: I am not actually smiling. I will use it if I actually find myself smiling at what another has said or an amusing thought I have expressed.

As long as I know I am not being passive-aggressive or hostile, I can always explain to others if and when they misunderstand my meaning.

It's hard to imagine someone perceiving you that way. If I used smileys to demonstrate actual emotional reactions I was having, rather than as a tool for tone clarification/humor, I'd be using a lot more of them. ()

Was it you, way back when, whom I (probably) bored with my linguistic research?

If I'd been bored, I wouldn't be asking for more of it...

I think the "core" of your ideas here is the idea of projection - that is, the way the representation of something, be it conceivable meaning or whatever, is separated from that very thing. It's really a similar thing with people and typology as it is with language and interpretation - perhaps because these two go hand-in hand. I could sit here and tahp awwt all mah werds like mahh kuuuhnseptyuns uv a cuuuuuuuntry folk, but actually be a very different person underneath the facade.

Which brings up another point. It is, perhaps, easier to lie/mislead on here, but there's also less motivation for it. The main motivation I can think of would be trolling, and being an obvious troll gets you banned.

In this sense, I think the same rules as typology apply to typological language studies - we can't really know type by language, but we might be able to make an rough estimate if we know the CF's intimately.

I know a lot of people bash socionics on here, but this source lists words commonly used by their cognitive functions. It's not really official, but just a list that people of various types have compiled. Perhaps the same could be said for the CF's we usually study on here too?

Thanks for the link. Oddly, I can relate to both the introverted ethics and extraverted ethics lists. Ne-Fi can get pretty effusive sometimes (e.g. the "we are very very very excited!" example. I could easily say something like that).

[Essay]

Heh, this is a topic I had a great epiphany about last night and fits right into the communication courses I'm taking at present. A secondary epiphany came with that, however, and that's that I need to actually finish these courses with a series of writing about what I learned from the first epiphany, and can't blow my inspired time elaborating on it here until those are all done with. (No offense!)

Just keep this discussion going for a month and then I'll get back to you.

(Come on. Can I get a Challenge Accepted meme?)

[cue5c]

I think the best part about PerC is it's allowed me to be friends with people who, in the past, I would've walked away from without a second thought. I've always loved digging down to the core of a person and having a lens that allows you to filter different people in a more precise way is a gift. I love that because of all the different types here, we're able to really get a sense of what the core values of each type are without it just being a cold description. The interaction helps bring down a lot of barriers that I think a lot of people just reading about MBTI build up. (Not that a lot of people here aren't just reading comments, but you get what I'm saying. )

[da_gobbo]

personally i'm a lot more open and honest (not that i lie irl, i just don't volunteer truths, here i do), i'm also a lot more confident (for some reason communication via typings easier for me than speaking)

i also agree that smilies make things a lot easier to understand, i'm really good at missing body language/more subtle communicaiton irl (probably because my mind wanders so much)

[chimeric]

Curiosity piqued, @Essay. Looking forward. ("Epiphany" is on @LXPilot's Ne list. Sadly, the word makes me think of Alexandra Wallace now.)

i'm also a lot more confident (for some reason communication via typings easier for me than speaking)

Yeah, it's an interesting reversal; the Ixxx subforums are generally chattier than the Exxx ones.