[forestgirl]

Ok.... many of you are correct. But let me clarify- I'm not bashing any one type over another- I'm bashing MBTI and its incompleteness. Sorry if ive offended any one. I know that T's care about people, but MBTI tends to really um....I dont know, theres just a lot of confusion when it comes to T vrs F- at least with me, because I make sure to equally balance out the two of them- T and F.

[Seralya]

Yeah, it seems to be easy for people to misunderstand what the T and F mean in MBTI terminology.

[yesiknowbut]

I think you just misinterpret what "thinking"and "feeling"really mean in the MBTI sense. And of course although using the system you come up with a preference, we're all sitting on a spectrum and in every decision we make we are capable of using one judging function as well as the other, it's just that if we are a feeler we may more easily and frequently fall into "feeler" mode than thinker mode, and vice versa if a thinker.

Another way of looking at it is that we have a series of constraints on our decision making, or factors which guide our decisions. A feeler is likely to have "harmony" closer to the top of their personal list of criteria than a thinker, and the thinker is more likely to have "best logical fit" closer to the top of theirs. And, as you say, the criteria themselves may be interlinked: you state that you believe concern for your fellow man is always the best logic (I have paraphrased you) for example, and thus elide the two.

Your initial post does reveal how important your extraverted feeling is to you, certainly. I would just observe that your truth is not a universal truth: it is just your truth. It works for you, and that's fine. Personally, I think in most cases it is more important to do what is correct than spare someone's feelings. If it is possible to achieve both then obviously that is best, but if not....truth is more important. So I do not share your personal truth about logic, I see the world differently. My view is no more or no less valid than yours.

Which, of course, is the whole big lesson that MBTI has to offer us.

[See Above]

I've always had a problem with this one thing in MBTI. I love MBTI for a few things:
#1: It helps you to know yourself, understand why you think the way you do and understand how you work and why.
There is a saying Patient heal thyself. I also say, philosopher know thyself.
The blind can not see to walk and those blinded to their own selves can not see to fix their flaws.
Jesus says to know yourself- self unerstanding. To master self knowledge, to be honest with yourself, so that you can better work on your weaknesses and your strengths.
#2: It helps you understand others better so that you know how to treat people and not get frustrated by those so who think so different from yourself.
But as for the T vrs F thing-I've always been bothered by the seperation of the feeling vrs logic- because....
according to all the tests- logic (T) is always cold calculating, unfeeling, 'rational' and makes objectve descisions.
Feeling is merciful, compassionate, empathetic, forgiving and makes descisions based on others.
I dont see how caring for others is irrational. I dont see how it is rational to make descisions and not take others into account. To me love (F) and truth (T) are inseperable.
For example ( sorry religious example) God has two main traits- Love and Truth. He is love( a desire for good) and he is truth ( truth is what IS- what is right and natural and ordered- good) Ultimate truth is goodness and ultimate love is goodness. THey both are goodness.
Another example- Mercy and justice. THey are inseperable. You must be merciful to be truly just and to be merciful you must have justice.
Many people mistakenly think that justice is something that it is not. Hatred, revenge...
many call it justice- their carrying out justice in the belief that 'they need to be punished'. But this is not justice. Justice has no hatred or revenge. Justice is doing the right thing- doing what is best and good.
And too often, people mistakenly think that being lax and lenient and letting people be free to commit evil- that it is mercy. Mercy does not mean withholding judgement. Mercy is judging whether punishment is needed and seeing that it is not, - does not inflict punishment on that person. THe punishment that is due- but not nesscesary. Mercy is compassion and a desire for good. SO both justice and mercy are ordered for what is good.
Being a T or an F I have learned- and seen this with my own eyes, does not determine whether you are rational or not. I've seen T's who are more irrational than F's and this is the truth, absurd but true- at least from my experiences. Two T's will get in a fight or argument and will not let up- when a peaceful solution could have easily been reached without absolutely no conflict- a conflict that was absolutely unessesary.
It depends I suppose on the individuals maturity and self mastery and their level of competence that makes them rational or not. War would be unnescessary if everyone agreed to respect one another and not try to trampled on one anothers rights and take advantage of or wrong another nation- eseentialy to be good. War is an object of irrationality. So what i find bothersome is how MBTI tries to sepperate the T and F by pitting logic against love.

Ive known T's who are more sensitive than many F's, but its out of self love and pride and they really dont care about any one else. They get hurt when insulted and then mock others for being sensitive. They will be giving and nice but for obviously ulterior motives, a you help me and Ill help you mentality. It is never out of slef giving or the goodness of their heart.
Then their are F's who are quite stoic to critisizm and insults but burst into tears when someone else is hurt.

So whenever someone says their a T I dont automatically think they are rational. Quite the opposite. I automatically think- Selfish.
F's think about others. T's seem to be survivialistic and selfish, focused on themselves, they dont take others into account.
So in conclusion I've come to the point where I believe that T's are more self focused and F's are focused on others besides themselves. F's car ebout others- T's dont- unless the other person is a part of them somehow- friend relative or lover.
Has anyone else noticed this inconsistancy?
Have any of you felt the same way? These are just my observations- and I hate when people pit Logic against compassion as if being survivalistic is more rational than self giving. In the long run- in the grand scheme of life, slef giving is more rational and productive.
Do you hate the T vrs F thing? Or am i the only one?

Well, I can't speak for all Ts, but, this is how it works for me. I have all the same impulses (positive or negative) as anyone that may be labeled F, but, here is the thing,- I think my T makes me want to figure out why, and whether or not there is are patterns, inconsistencies, assumptions, broader truths, historical and cultural contexts, biological bases, etc. I don't seem to be capable of just feeling my feelings. I have to examine them, take them apart, reassemble them, shake them and see if they rattle, research them, turn them upside down and see if anything falls out, etc. I have to try to understand them. (Which, of course, theoretically, can help me understand me, I suppose. Someday.)

This doesn't mean I am terribly selfish nor does it mean that I am extraordinarily kind. I am just very curious about everything, including feelings.

(Though, as a matter of fact, my sister calls me the "nice one" in the family. Tee-hee!)

I suspect this may not be uncommon for other types, as well, though. I just do it all the time! It is my MO.