[the3ddy]

When I say "Thinkers" I'm not talking about the person who has the lovely balance between F and T but prefers more "Thinking", but rather more about the irrationally, hyper-rational thinker, the one who appreciates cold, hard facts and formulas rather than ebullient bunnies and millions of smiles.

I'm pretty new to all this MBTI typing and happy with this newfound knowledge because it has helped me understand some people who have had me pulling my hair in frustration. However, as an ENFJ I want to be able to understand fully or at least interact well with all types but I'm somewhat at a loss with those "Thinkers". I know F and T are 2 that clash frequently and, hence, why hell is reigning on my interactions with them.

I know I'm being very general about this but I just have this INTJ roommate that makes me want to smack his logical bunny of his and replace it with a frown so it'd at least have some emotion. I know these thinkers are still just people flesh and blood like the rest of us, but they are like a different species to me.
I go , they go
I go , they go

Anyways, what makes these people (extreme thinkers) happy? Or rather what do you guys talk about with them?

[Owfin]

When I say "Thinkers" I'm not talking about the person who has the lovely balance between F and T but prefers more "Thinking", but rather more about the irrationally, hyper-rational thinker, the one who appreciates cold, hard facts and formulas rather than ebullient bunnies and millions of smiles.

Liking facts and formulas over bunnies make me irrationally hyper rational? I'm afraid to say that you might be projecting your inferior (not in the traditional sense of the word- look up cognitive function theory) thinking onto other people.

I know I'm being very general about this but I just have this INTJ roommate that makes me want to smack his logical bunny of his and replace it with a frown so it'd at least have some emotion

This isn't just INTJs. The thing is that because you are ENFJ, you are very understanding of external expressions of good or bad, feeling, right or wrong, that sort of thing. An INTJ has introverted feeling, meaning that they take their understandings of things things from the inside, and keep it in the inside. They may be very happy inside.

Anyways, what makes these people (extreme thinkers) happy?

A lot of the same things that make you happy.

[Mutatio NOmenis]

Shit, I've been out of typology for too long. Thanks for the reintroduction to NT-NF interractions.

[Etherea]

Yesterday I had a painful interaction with an unhealthy thinker. He tests as INTJ, but I'm completely lost on his type tbh. Anyway, he's taken to saying that I, and most of the rest of the population, all think similarly (particularly women and I really think he's saying feelers here). He thinks his straightforward approach is the best way to go about bringing up issues he has with the company, which to some of us sounds an awful lot like complaining. He asserts that he is merely different than everyone else and thinks his different communication style gets him in trouble. I regret him getting into MBTI because it sometimes sounds like he's developed some sort of superiority complex, even though I suspect he may not be an INTJ at all. We all have our own unique thought processes, even if they seem similar to some. Even though he didn't mean it quite this way, he compared his INFx mom and myself to an incredibly unhealthy and psychopathic ESFP girl he dated. I found that incredibly offensive actually.

How do I not strangle someone who implies that feelers are all the same and seems to think he's somehow better? I don't really know. Out of everything he said to me in his anger (saying I'm selfish, a bad friend, an ineffective manager, etc), when he started hinting at personality types and such, that's when I wanted to launch across the room and beat the shit out of him. I try to assume that I've simply misunderstood him and that he said things he didn't really mean. I try to stay open minded and maintain my own sense of inner peace. It takes all types, even immature little brats like this one. So I just use my Fe to try to understand him more.

[Jawz]

My relationship with my INTJ brother got to a head when I knocked him out and he had to be taken to a hospital to get stitches :/

That said, he was going through an emotionally rough time which I found out about later. This happened in 1999 and we just forgave each other last year after my divorce. We've had a great relationship since. I think I was able to use the learnings from MBTI and JCF to better understand him [in fact, I made a thread about it in the INTJ section exactly 9 months ago or something and got some very, very helpful responses which I applied]. My desire to improve my relationship with him also coincided with the best emotional health of his life as well which definitely helped.

I'm also trying to figure out his Enneagram now so I can really understand his motivations. I have a very strong feeling that he's a Type 8w9 and I'm a Type 9w8 which could be an explanation for our decade long conflict.

This is not to say that this has been my experience with all thinkers ... everyone is different and I take my interactions with people individually rather than lump them in as a sociological grouping based on MBTI/Keirsey or JCF. I use my learnings from all these theories to help with my very unique relationships with everyone.

[Falling Leaves]

Thinking and Feeling clash because 'feeling' is a very social function and 'thinking' is a very anti-social function...

I can't claim that I can interact very well with dominant feeler types, especially Fe users. I have an ESFJ friend who I share a great mutual like with but at the same time we aren't ever going to be the very best of friends. Same with just about every ENFJ I've met.

It's almost like I'm from Mars and they are from Venus...

[the3ddy]

Liking facts and formulas over bunnies make me irrationally hyper rational? I'm afraid to say that you might be projecting your inferior (not in the traditional sense of the word- look up cognitive function theory) thinking onto other people.

When I said all the things about bunnies and smiles and irrationally hyper rational, I was just trying to be creative with my wording and meant no offense to anyone so I apologize. It was a jest but it was a poor attempt. I was using my roommate as an example of someone who I am misunderstanding and not of all thinkers.

Just a bit more info on my roommate, the reason why he is even my roommate is that we had so many commonalities, it was ridiculous. However, there came some intense arguments (where I wanted to punch him while he was thinking I'm the most idiotic person to traverse the planet) that seemingly came out of nowhere between the two of us. What simply happened was how he sometimes casually disregards people who are not close to him. It's not to say he is completely cold because he is very warm to the few people he is close to but really, constantly remarking that some people are just so absolutely idiotic and retarded no matter how unrelated they are, it gets me so riled up. I'll add that he is absolutely brilliant; however that's no excuse to say such degrading remarks to people who may have had their own unique experiences leading up to their particular situations regardless of whether you know them or not.

Shit, I've been out of typology for too long. Thanks for the reintroduction to NT-NF interractions.

If this is too much of a heated topic, I can refrain from continuing this discussion further. What I was seeking in this thread was just some input, like some very general input to be able to associate better with and not hate on a specific (or you may say general) group.

I understand it's important to treat everyone individually. I care a lot about what people think about me so I am trying to gain a deeper understanding of each individual with the help of these theories. It's just that for about the past 3 years, I've been surrounded by a number of people, or rather my social group, who were more thinking-based. I felt there was a slight disconnect with our communications at times and I just honestly did not understand what it was before. I always came back to certain friends, who I know now are much more feeling-based, and it was a sigh of relief here. Our conversations were fluid because I didn't have to put an effort to direct a conversation. When I talk to thinkers, I have to really put an effort to get to know them better, the kind of thinking I have to do when I did my schoolwork honestly... I wanted to talk about random things, but they always just shut me down on all the trivialities, and I am not a very annoying talkative person either.

As an ENFJ, it's a HUGE thing for me what anyone thinks about me and whether I understand anyone or not. Some people I connect really well with almost effortlessly, while others, I have to put an effort or I just don't understand them at all. Is it coincidence that most of them who I connect easily with are girls who are more feeling based? Maybe. Are the communication troubles that I am having due to the thinker and feeler divide? Maybe. It's a hunch of mine, or rather intuition, that I am going by so it's nothing absolute, just a possibility of what my problem is.

A lot of the same things that make you happy.

On a basic level, yes. But how do I make them happy? How do I get to the point where I can have them share their motivations/interests? I share mine but some thinkers (not all of course) refuse to reciprocate. So from my perspective, all I see is this cold-hearted person though I ABSOLUTELY KNOW is not true. All I ask is some advice is how I get them to share some of their deeply felt feelings so I can trust them. I know I'm being very general and delving into a controversial topic but I'd just like some input because this is how much it is bothering me.

[Owfin]

On a basic level, yes. But how do I make them happy? How do I get to the point where I can have them share their motivations/interests? I share mine but some thinkers (not all of course) refuse to reciprocate. So from my perspective, all I see is this cold-hearted person though I ABSOLUTELY KNOW is not true. All I ask is some advice is how I get them to share some of their deeply felt feelings so I can trust them. I know I'm being very general and delving into a controversial topic but I'd just like some input because this is how much it is bothering me.

Hmm, I do guess it isn't all the same things. We can be happy with you if we have a good intellectual conversation or earned an interesting insight or perspective. You don't need to touch our hearts and ethics, you need to touch our minds. We kind of get our hearts warmed through our minds. "The best way to a thinker's heart is through his/her brain". Whereas I would think that you would get your mind excited because your soul is, so to speak.

[jungify]

The unfortunate thing about people who are heavily T, is they don't really *get* why F is important, so trying to talk/interact with them on that level is kind of frustrating and dead ends pretty easily. Fortunately, being more empathetic and cognizant of a person's motivations as an F gives you a bit of an advantage here if you're willing to give it a shot.

You have to meet them on their own turf, and try to be more of a T. I've seen someone else mention it on this forum, and frankly it's pretty brilliant and in my experience the best way to engage them. It sort of sucks because it requires you to step out of your comfort zone but ironically with the intent of meeting their needs (a very F thing to do, at its core).

I've found the more I try to get a T to understand F, the more frustrated they get about why it matters, because it's just a foreign concept to them.

[crazyeddie]

This doesn't sound like a T vs F thing so much as an ENFJ vs. INTJ thing. ... I can easily see how the two types would clash (primary Fe versus tertiary Fi; secondary Te versus inferior Ti), but I can't think of a single useful thing to say about how to help resolve the matter.