[Optimus]

Yeah, I have come to the same realizations about the manipulation. It's mainly because I've bumped into friends who are more S and T who confront my subjective judgements. One was a roommate who was an ISTJ. Good friend, but was a challenge! They see my manipulation plain as day, and that really forced me to look inside and see what they were talking about. Up to then I had NO IDEA I was subtly "impressing" other people, or trying to get a response out of them. And when my efforts failed, that's right, I cried the "poor me" blues.

I agree, there's levels of control going on here. Seems that in my experience, I am having to learn to let go and not control so much. Not lead so much. Let people be, and let them make decisions on their own. Let the world exist and be as it is. It will work itself out. It doesn't need my prodding and manipulating to arrive at a good end. This trait is definitely something to be wise to and aware of so we can keep it under control, show restraint, and not interfere too much with influencing other people's opinions, feelings or actions. Those are my thoughts!

About your ISTJ friends, you should really hold back from expressing any sort of emotions around them. I hear ISTJs are one of the most socially difficult people to be around with. When you say that they see your "manipulation" plain as day, I know exactly what you're talking about, but its not manipulation that they see in their eyes, they just tend to jump to conclusions and judge things from the surface because they lack emotional insight, and they are VERY aware and insecure of this fact even though they might not act like it. Don't let anyone deprive/stop you of who you are.

Also, you use the word manipulation loaded with its ambiguity. How do you know you're manipulating someone? This word should only be used when under extreme circumstances, like describing a criminal. We are obviously not criminals here. I would rather describe ENFJs as being able to bring out the best in others, precisely what we want from others, and skillfully wield our finely-balanced emotional and objective insights onto others just enough to give a slight pressure/nudge to get them to get their engines/thinking caps running.

[Kalifornia310]

Well said! this is a really good thread. i strongly dislike the all of nothing approach to life. sometimes good results come through. but the procrastination is a total buzz kill!

its time to start focusing on those sutble traits that cause so much distress... yay!
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[Optimus]

Well said! this is a really good thread. i strongly dislike the all of nothing approach to life. sometimes good results come through. but the procrastination is a total buzz kill!

its time to start focusing on those sutble traits that cause so much distress... yay!
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I can't believe you posted your response through a mobile device. lol

[Kalifornia310]

I can't believe you posted your response through a mobile device. lol

Lmao! im laying on the beach. chillin wit friends. n i got bored. gotto love the advancements of technology. plus my phone is awesome!! suuuuweeet!
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[Tongue Tied]

....not only you guys.

To be honest, thehigher, I have noticed this A LOT also in INFPs.

[bonfirequeen]

About your ISTJ friends, you should really hold back from expressing any sort of emotions around them. I hear ISTJs are one of the most socially difficult people to be around with. When you say that they see your "manipulation" plain as day, I know exactly what you're talking about, but its not manipulation that they see in their eyes, they just tend to jump to conclusions and judge things from the surface because they lack emotional insight, and they are VERY aware and insecure of this fact even though they might not act like it. Don't let anyone deprive/stop you of who you are.

Also, you use the word manipulation loaded with its ambiguity. How do you know you're manipulating someone? This word should only be used when under extreme circumstances, like describing a criminal. We are obviously not criminals here. I would rather describe ENFJs as being able to bring out the best in others, precisely what we want from others, and skillfully wield our finely-balanced emotional and objective insights onto others just enough to give a slight pressure/nudge to get them to get their engines/thinking caps running.

Right. And thanks for the encouragement. I guess I was using the term "manipulation" loosely. It is perceived as manipulation by those who feel manipulated by it (duh, right?) . I guess the biggest thing I can learn is to not get offended when someone doesn't respond positively to my positive "prodding" . There will be folks who don't like my tactics, or who flatly don't agree with me. And that's OK.

[bonfirequeen]

About your ISTJ friends, you should really hold back from expressing any sort of emotions around them. I hear ISTJs are one of the most socially difficult people to be around with.

I just went over to the ISTJ thread to get a better understanding of their personality type. I feel badly for them. Being social is one of their biggest struggles! Regarding expressing emotions around them, I think you are right. It's not what interests them, and they'll more-than-likely discount emotions without even thinking about it. I had a friend from college like this, and now I understand why he frustrated me so much. So yes, hold back and don't expect to get empathy from them is good advice to help protect my emotions! They are kind people though with lots of "understanding" of logic & facts, so we have to give them praise for that.

I think my former roomate might be closer to an ISFJ because she isn't completely anti-social, and she has more emotional reactions than strictly heady ones, but she is more T than me, or maybe it's the S...don't know enough about all the Te Ti Se Si stuff to figure that out. Maybe an INTP can help me out here.