[Bri]

After looking more into the natural weaknesses of my type, I've noticed that one of our biggest problems is manipulation.

I may just be naive, but I've never really understood what this means. To me, that's a red flag, because I could just be unaware of it in myself and be hurting people without realizing it.



Basically, I just want to know personal experiences with this problem, and what it looks like in practice.

And if you've never noticed this problem before, what are other pro's/con's of ENFJs?

[Trope]

Manipulative? Yes.
Bad? Not necessarily.

The ENFJ I once knew was great at getting people to do what he wanted. I'd even go so far as to say he had it down to a science. He generally opted to use his powers of persuasion for good, but at times could get people into trouble as well. In regard to his motives, he liked improving those around him and having a good time more than anything else I can recall.

[Zulban]

ENFJs in my experience are prone to passive aggressive manipulation. Really it means they have goals in mind and they achieve them in indirect ways, like subtle people tricks that are hard to harpoon logically. Typically an ENFJ passive aggressive character can feign ignorance when accused of influence or trickery, and this usually works as a defense. Quite honestly I can't tell if this sort of thing is intentional or simply instinctual. As an INTP I find the sort of thing pretty annoying since it's a complete evasion of direct thought and direct conversation about issues.

A good example of this is when my sister the other day tried to convince my mom, through appeals to her emotions, that she didn't want to watch a movie at a theater that night. My sister did this, as my brother explicitly pointed out, because it was actually my sister who did not want to go.

[Zulban]

Manipulative? Yes.
Bad? Not necessarily.

Indeed, not necessarily bad goals. But there are bad ways to accomplish good things.

[jabe]

Hi Bri = This is something I wonder about myself too. I think there are times I try to persuade people to go along with what I want, although this is usually because I perceive this to be for the 'greater good'. I do sometimes worry about the extent to which I do it unwittingly. I think I am quite good at having ideas and my enthusiasm for them is quite contagious.

I think one of the characteristics of ENFJs that other types find quite irritating is that we always want to help people and try to get them to do what we think is in their best interests. I know my sister gets quite frustrated with this side of me, although overall I do think my contribution benefits the people concerned. (Well I would, wouldn't I!?)

The other down side of ENFJs is that we can give too much of ourselves and wear ourselves out. As my friend described it to me last night, if I believe in something (especially if it is for the benefit of others) I will give it everything and then I have nothing left for me, my partner etc.

I'd be quite interested to know what you see as the negative sides of ENFJs are. I feel quite glad that I'm an ENFJ (although I am border J/P, which means I sometimes get bored and want to move onto the next great idea) but none of the types are perfect, we all have our flaws!!!

Hi Zulban = I wouldn't do something like your sister. I see this more like trickery than anything. I don't think there are many ENFJs who would do this. Unless she really thought your mom didn't want to go to the cinema ??? I think some ENFJs can be manipulative but I don't think this is very often for our own selfish motives. I think I can be a bit passive aggressive at times though...this is because I don't like confrontation, and so it comes out in other ways.

[Zulban]

Hi Zulban = I wouldn't do something like your sister. I see this more like trickery than anything. I don't think there are many ENFJs who would do this. Unless she really thought your mom didn't want to go to the cinema ??? I think some ENFJs can be manipulative but I don't think this is very often for our own selfish motives. I think I can be a bit passive aggressive at times though...this is because I don't like confrontation, and so it comes out in other ways.

Oh I know there are ENFJs who won't use the skill for selfish means. I just find that directly confronting an issue is a much safer way to be sure you aren't fooling yourself into doing something wrong. Matter of preference I guess.

[Dr. Metallic]

I've known 2 positive ENFJs. One said that he was good at manipulation, the other never said anything about it. I was not manipulated by either--probably because we had a mutual respect for each other's resistance to manipulation.

So, I can't confirm or deny an ENFJ's manipulation skills, or inclination.

[Zulban]

Well it really depends on what you call manipulation. Everyone "manipulates" or influences people I suppose, but the ENFJ seems to do it more often through passive aggressive actions. If I were to "manipulate" someone it would probably be through verbal force or something. As the Simpsons would say, superliminal. I just dislike all miscommunications:

Like in movies say, where there might have been a romance or something, except simply because of some stupid miscommunication things go horribly wrong. Like Romeo and Juliet, I am really not fond of that kind of plot line. This all relates to passive aggressive manipulation... At least to me

[Shai Gar]

I don't like R&J simply because of their stupidity.

[Zulban]

I don't like R&J simply because of their stupidity.

Essentially. It gets to the point where it becomes annoying and unbelievable.