Do ENFJ males struggle with women?

Do ENFJ males struggle with women?

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This is a discussion on Do ENFJ males struggle with women? within the ENFJ Forum - The Givers forums, part of the NF's Temperament Forum- The Dreamers category; I know I do. I can never make any sense of it because I'm not bad looking or anything. I've ...

  1. #1
    ENFJ - The Givers

    Do ENFJ males struggle with women?

    I know I do. I can never make any sense of it because I'm not bad looking or anything. I've become very obsessive about the way I look, but I don't have a negative self image. I carry myself rather highly, and dress and act accordingly usually. Regardless of this, I think my intellectually depressive attitude might turn women off. I like to talk about totally complex things and it seems that no women find that attractive. Over the years this has caused me to constantly wonder what people saw when they looked at me. I use to think that my ability to intellectually communicate would be a chick magnet but now I know better. I don't necessarily view it as a problem with me, though. In fact, I find myself attempting to "dumb myself down" to meet the standards of the women I'm attracted to. Furthermore, it seems that every time I give a women respect they immediately shut me out. It's like they don't want to be with me unless they constantly have to pursue my respect. As soon as I give a women any respect (which I usually believe they deserve) I'm fucked. Plus anytime I start to talk about my true beliefs or try to get into a deep convo with a woman they look at me like I'm an alien. I just don't get it, are women intimidated by intelligence, or just turned off by it, or what?

    I know that was a long rant, and I know any guy at my age could go on for hours about women, but I just wanted to see if my fellow male ENFJs have similar issues or not.
    Mutatio NOmenis, OrangeAppled, remer and 3 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFP - The Idealists

    Well, I am not an ENFJ guy, but I am an INFP woman who has been on the receiving end of an ENFJ's attentions and I find them absolutely charming, and we have the best conversations. I'd love to date an ENFJ if circumstance allowed (currently the only one I could see myself dating lives far away). I love that they are simultaneously sentimental but intelligent, fun but still have serious beliefs / strong values, etc. They're so friendly and adaptable that they seem to make friends easily wherever they go.

    I will say this though: my ENFJ guy friends complain they cannot meet a girl, but they often have a trail of female friends following them like puppy dogs. I want to shake them and tell them to look around them, and so I will do that to you: :shakes: look around you - are you totally sure you don't have any girls who are "friends" waiting in the wings? Are you dismissing them over stupid nit-picky things? If not, then disregard that.

    Next issue I've seen with my ENFJ guy friends is that they flirt like no tomorrow, and it's so charming and wonderful until you realize they do it with nearly everybody, small children and old people included. Make sure that when you pursue a woman you are sincerely interested that you display a difference in your behavior towards her. It needs to be clear you are interested in her and that she isn't just another friendly flirtation. An ENFJ guy friend turned out to be interested in me once, but I was turned off because he was too attentive to other women - it made me doubt his sincerity. He was very nice, but a little too nice and complimenting to other girls. ENFJs seem to have a blind spot here - they just see it as friendly and don't realize it can cross the line. Maybe you don't seem as respectful as you think? Again, if this doesn't apply, disregard it.

    I understand the abstraction thing though. I think a lot of intuitives get frustrated with this. We want to discuss things that the sensor majority finds dull, and we find them dull (major generalizing to make a point). I find ENFJs do really well at bridging the gap between sensors and intuitives because Fe is so adaptable. I do know an ENFJ or two who can focus on "intellectually depressive" topics and it will turn women off - they may see the depressed aspect as whiny. Pity doesn't tend to inspire romantic feelings. The intellectual part can seem elitist or know-it-all, and that seems arrogant (not attractive). I'm not sure what the solution to this is, because being Fi-dom, I am probably more retarded in that area , but the ENFJs I know who seem to draw people to them 1) focus a lot on the other person, 2) take a diplomatic approach to expressing opinions, and 3) maintain a positive attitude, even with some wry self-deprecation at times. I have yet to meet one ENFJ who doesn't have a very playful side, and it's best to show that first and then ease into deeper conversation. It's less overwhelming and intense for people that way (and most NFs can seem intense in some way).

    I also know that NFs have very high ideals, and its been my observation that ENFJs have very high standards and are looking for something very particular in a relationship - so yeah, you either lower your standards or accept it may take some time/effort to meet someone you really mesh with. I'm always a fan of the latter approach (but then I am perpetually single and a hardcore idealist ).

    And if women only like you when you act like a dumb jerk, then they are probably dumb jerks also.
    (Maybe you should look for an INFP... )

    I hope this essay helps some .
    alexis, WickedQueen, kph5034 and 22 others thanked this post.

  3. #3
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    Two words to describe the ENFJ I'm dating: INTENSE and INTIMIDATING. at first...

    If the women are shocked by "deep thoughts" then they are immature or dimwits, so it might be the age of the women you're talking about. But if you're attracted to a woman who seems INTROVERTED, my best advice is to throttle back on your idealism, fantasies, lists of things you want out of life, your quest for becoming, "being" or whatever, etc, until the girl is used to you a little bit! Like the response above, show them your friendly/giving/less intimidating side first.

    On the plus side you guys are driven, have a vision for your future usually, and are very dependable and giving. It's just that when you combine your quest for the perfect relationship with your outgoing style it feels a little scary for those of us who are trying to hide in our garage and not examine our feelings. :) I can certainly talk to my ENFJ about any of his deep thoughts, but I need him to ratchet his intensity level down a bit first so I can think. Not sure if that's a problem for you or not, so that's my 2 cents.
    kph5034, Mutatio NOmenis, parallel and 5 others thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Quote Originally Posted by kph5034 View Post
    I know I do. I can never make any sense of it because I'm not bad looking or anything. I've become very obsessive about the way I look, but I don't have a negative self image. I carry myself rather highly, and dress and act accordingly usually. Regardless of this, I think my intellectually depressive attitude might turn women off. I like to talk about totally complex things and it seems that no women find that attractive. Over the years this has caused me to constantly wonder what people saw when they looked at me. I use to think that my ability to intellectually communicate would be a chick magnet but now I know better. I don't necessarily view it as a problem with me, though. In fact, I find myself attempting to "dumb myself down" to meet the standards of the women I'm attracted to. Furthermore, it seems that every time I give a women respect they immediately shut me out. It's like they don't want to be with me unless they constantly have to pursue my respect. As soon as I give a women any respect (which I usually believe they deserve) I'm fucked. Plus anytime I start to talk about my true beliefs or try to get into a deep convo with a woman they look at me like I'm an alien. I just don't get it, are women intimidated by intelligence, or just turned off by it, or what?

    I know that was a long rant, and I know any guy at my age could go on for hours about women, but I just wanted to see if my fellow male ENFJs have similar issues or not.

    I think ENFJs are natural leaders, thats why like orangeappled said some ENFJs she knows has a group of girls following them without knowing it. You have to express your passion for everyone to see it. That attracts women. You might have great ideas, but if no one can see them, they're worthless.

    On the issue of talking to women about yout intellectual passions, you have to make your story or whatever your talking about interesting and understandable for them. You have to show passion but at the same you have to convey your message through words that they'll understand - I'm talking about lingo here. You can't assume people know every word from your field of expertise, you've got to enlighten them.

    As for giving women respect, I think your issue here is that your over complement or something of the sort. Respect is simply about being polite and following etiquette, nothing more. Respect doesn't mean trying to flatter a girl. I know from experience, I hate it when people over compliment me, to tell the truth, I generally dislike compliments (because generally people are throwing them everywhere left and right). I only like them if they are genuine and coming from the right person (someone I value and highly respect). I judge myself first. People who need compliments are usually unsuccessful and haven't accomplished much, hence why they need and strive for the acknowledgement of others. Some will read this and think im a prick.

    Hope this helped.
    thehigher, kph5034, OrangeAppled and 6 others thanked this post.

  5. #5
    ENFJ - The Givers

    I have the same problem, but I've learned that women want to know what you feel, not what you know. The other problem I have is that I take on a parenting role, or an authority figure not a lover.
    kph5034, Female INFJ, Unicorntopia and 2 others thanked this post.

  6. #6
    ENFJ - The Givers

    Hi! So to preface, I'm new to this all.. my friend sent me a link the other day and i learned i was an ENFJ and everything the websites ive seen has been completely true about me.. the way i always put others first before myself, have a sensitive intuition, love to help make others lives better etc..

    Anyway, i just got out of a relationship about a month ago (i believe my ex was something like an ESFP.. she was fun, but always is looking for something new and exciting.) Before we even got together, i knew it wasnt going to last, but i gave it a shot anyway because she was really into me and she was a lot of fun. At first we would have pretty deep talks about live and love, but sometimes, i could just not grasp where she was coming from at all. I dont know why i stayed in the relationship for so long when it wasnt that good (maybe thats just my ENFJ thing) but i guess ive just started to grow tired of trying to find someone. I get discouraged a lot, thinking that i wont ever meet that girl who i'll connect with so deeply (even though a previous ex i do feel i did) so i end up settling with girls. Maybe since im 23, its just that age where girls dont want a deep relationship guy in general. Maybe i dont seem troubled enough for a ENFJ girl or INFP to take interest in me.. Maybe i need to show more interest in the quieter more reserved girls?

    Honestly i dont know. It's one skill to be able to pick up random girls (i know some friends who run game) but its another thing to be able to find someone who you can really, truly, deeply connect with. Again, maybe its my age where college girls just want to fool around, but i have been frustrated about meeting girls.

    Anyone have any ideas on questions to ask a girl when i meet her to possibly see what kind of compatibility we may have as in personality type? Id love to hear your input. Thanks!
    kph5034, remer, Tongue Tied and 1 others thanked this post.

  7. #7
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    I do think it's hard to generalise, to say anyone should look for this personality type or that, there's the whole physical thing, shared interests, politics, background, tastes etc.

    I'm married to an ENFJ. What we have in common is that we are both very intelligent/intellectual types (Ok I know that doesn't sound modest), we both laugh a lot/find things funny, we both like people and socialising. What people find difficult about my husband is that he tends to take over any room he is in, and he can be quite controlling. Actually, make that very controlling. I guess one of the things that first attracted me to him was that I had never ever been outwitted or over-shadowed by a man until I met him. It was a challenge, something new, etc etc. Well, I am a very typical ENTP :). FWIW I think the TP elements of my personality make it possible for me to be tolerant of the more forceful aspects of his character. On the other hand he thinks I am a hard and hurtful bitch at times, it certainly isn't all one way, and I don't live in his shadow, nor he in mine....

    Bottom line though is find someone you like, don't over-analyse it, be nice to them and kind on yourself. Pretty much everybody finds somebody, there are plenty of ENFJs in the world and it isn't a personality label that shrieks "single!"
    kph5034, priestess, remer and 4 others thanked this post.

  8. #8
    INFP - The Idealists

    I think OrangeAppled is right on the money! ENFJs are charming, brilliant people...you have nothing to worry about in that department. In fact, that charm balances quite nicely with your intellect. It never seems overmuch, just makes for interesting conversation!

    What did you say?:
    I like to talk about totally complex things and it seems that no women find that attractive. Over the years this has caused me to constantly wonder what people saw when they looked at me. I use to think that my ability to intellectually communicate would be a chick magnet but now I know better. I don't necessarily view it as a problem with me, though. In fact, I find myself attempting to "dumb myself down" to meet the standards of the women I'm attracted to.

    I think you would do very well with an INFP. You like to talk about "totally complex things"? So do we. To the INFP ladies out there (myself included), that ability of yours to have intellectual conversation is a VERY attractive quality. Don't dumb yourself down. You'll never be happy with what you attract if you do.

    This may be kind of an odd parallel...but you know how there are hundreds of translations of classic novels out there? (Dumas' Count of Monte Cristo is a good example). If you compare some of those hacked off translations to the original, the novel is no longer the classic it was meant to be. The beautiful language is gone, the imagery is muddied, and the book has lost its value. I hate to see 'dumbed-down' versions of wonderful, classic treasures.

    The quality women will want the original, and hate the fake, abridged version of you.
    Hope this helps.
    kph5034, Mutatio NOmenis, Tongue Tied and 4 others thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INFP - The Idealists

    Maybe i dont seem troubled enough for a ENFJ girl or INFP to take interest in me.. Maybe i need to show more interest in the quieter more reserved girls?
    I doubt most INFPs and ENFJs are looking for someone troubled (we're idealists too, and as much as both of these types may like to comfort, pity sucks out the romance fast). There's nothing wrong with liking extroverted girls either. Introverts are not necessarily more "deep" in the way it seems you are seeking. I know two ENFJ men married to ESxJ women and they seem very happy. I would've predicted conflict for such strong personalities, but maybe their strong personalities would crush a gentler one.

    Honestly i dont know. It's one skill to be able to pick up random girls (i know some friends who run game) but its another thing to be able to find someone who you can really, truly, deeply connect with.
    It most definitely is. Head over to the INFP forum to hear people complain about this sort of thing

    Anyone have any ideas on questions to ask a girl when i meet her to possibly see what kind of compatibility we may have as in personality type? Id love to hear your input. Thanks!
    Ask her about what YOU want to know (but not so directly it seems like an interrogation - I feel like I don't need to warn an ENFJ of that though ).

    If I manage to find my tongue & talk to a guy I find attractive, I like to ask questions that yield info on his ideas, values, dreams, opinions, etc, but as playfully as possible. More conceptual than concrete facts. I'm interested in his thought process and life attitude, not some list of traits. If the guy is a person I clique with, then we often naturally fall into a "deeper" conversation once one of has initiated it by using questions along those lines. If not, it kind of fizzles out fast and it becomes clear to me we're not on the same wavelength.
    kph5034 thanked this post.

  10. #10
    INFP - The Idealists

    Well I'm an INFJ... and I really love who my ENFJ guy is. He definitely sounds a lot like you. He's very intense, extroverted, starts out with deep conversations about things he's passionate about. He's definitely unique. I love him.

    I know a lot of people might tell you to take it back a notch or two with how you approach girls, but if he had approached me any other way then I wouldn't have been meeting the real him and the whole relationship might have gone in a completely different direction, if anywhere.

    That being said, he's your age and he had been single for two and a half years before me for the exact reasons you describe. And yes, girls looked at him like he was crazy when he tried to have conversations with them. He also spoke of girls just wanting to fool around. He didn't mind being single though. Its all about finding the best person for you. And patience.
    Female INFJ thanked this post.


 
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