[Sourpuss]

Ok. These reasons aren't convincing.

Why is the military inherently a 'mans group'.

Have you ever noticed how the military is very conformist? There's a reason for that.

[ElliottC]

I see your point and this idea could be worth considering, but is it really the best solution? Separating genders instead of trying harder to fix all those issues? For example, has everything really been done in order to put an end to sexual harassement within combat units? Or a least make it an extremly rare occurence?
I mean I don't have any military experience, but this just seems like a cop out to me.

Yes, it is the best solution. By "fix all those issues" you mean "fix human nature" and I don't believe that's possible. Do you believe it's possible?

Here is the truth about women entering male spaces. Long story short: women ruin them.
Male Space |

[Amaryllis]

Yes, it is the best solution. By "fix all those issues" you mean "fix human nature" and I don't believe that's possible. Do you believe it's possible?

Here is the truth about women entering male spaces. Long story short: women ruin them.
Male Space |

It is in men's nature to sexually harass and rape women? How many women have you raped and sexually harassed lately?

There's tons of articles like this one on the web, but it's never backed up with concrete facts, just insecure ramblings. You would learn much more actual reliable stuff by reading Simone de Beauvoir's work.

[ElliottC]

It is in men's nature to sexually harass and rape women? How many women have you raped and sexually harassed lately?

There's tons of articles like this one on the web, but it's never backed up with concrete facts, just insecure ramblings. You would learn much more actual reliable stuff by reading Simone de Beauvoir's work.

You know that's not what I meant. Please don't twist my words.

My point is, including women in combat units means ignoring or attempting to reshape the most basic truths about men and women. It ignores the purpose of the military and endangers male soldiers, while using the military to conduct social experiments and advance the feminine imperative.

In other words, it's an excellent example of what the article explains.

Edit: By "fix these issues" I thought you meant the assertions I made, not the sexual harassment and rape of female soldiers. I misread that part. We're still on track though.

[Amaryllis]

You know that's not what I meant. Please don't twist my words.

No, I don't know what you meant.

Human nature refers to the distinguishing characteristics—including ways of thinking, feeling and acting—which humans tend to have naturally, independently of the influence of culture.

I said, specifically referring to issues, among other things, as rape and sexual harrasement:

...but is it really the best solution? Separating genders instead of trying harder to fix all those issues? For example, has everything really been done in order to put an end to sexual harassement within combat units? Or a least make it an extremly rare occurence?

And you answered:

Yes, it is the best solution. By "fix all those issues" you mean "fix human nature" and I don't believe that's possible. Do you believe it's possible?

So?

My point is, including women in combat units means ignoring or attempting to reshape the most basic truths about men and women. It ignores the purpose of the military and endangers male soldiers, while using the military to conduct social experiments and advance the feminine imperative.

In other words, it's an excellent example of what the article explains.

But this idea has no substance, no facts to back it up with, not even reliable statistics, absolutely nothing. All you can provide me to support this claim is an article from an obscure, self proclaimed "rational" website which, like your opinion, hasn't anything to support its stance either. If I follow this guy's method of writing a social statement, I could publish a whole article about the fact that people born in January are unfit to be scientists, but it wouldn't make it any less wrong.

Give me reliable proof (studies, statistics, whatever) that your stance could actually be true, and then we'll talk.

[ElliottC]

Please see edit above. I misunderstood "fix these issues."

But this idea has no substance, no facts to back it up with, not even reliable statistics, absolutely nothing. All you can provide me to support this claim is an article from an obscure, self proclaimed "rational" website which, like your opinion, hasn't anything to support its stance either. If I follow this guy's method of writing a social statement, I could publish a whole article about the fact that people born in January are unfit to be scientists, but it wouldn't make it any less wrong.

Give me reliable proof (studies, statistics, whatever) that your stance could actually be true, and then we'll talk.

The SHOW ME SCIENCE card tells me you've stopped trying to make a point and are set on irritating me. If you made a positive claim about the OP or mixed group dynamics, I could just as easily ask for SCIENCE from you.

Let's assume that if the military plans on fielding mixed combat units, it will spend significant resources to minimize sexual harassment and rape. Please answer these questions so I know where we disagree.

1. Are men and women are the same, physically and psychologically? If not, what are some of the differences relevant to war?
2. If men and women are different, should the military adjust its standards to suit women? What effect would this would have on the morale of male soldiers?
3. Does adding women to a group of men affect group dynamics and cohesion? If so, how?
4. Are people generally more comfortable seeing men suffer and die?
5. Considering all of the above and the military's purpose, do you think it's worth trying to field mixed combat units?

[Amaryllis]

Please see edit above. I misunderstood "fix these issues."

Understood.

The SHOW ME SCIENCE card tells me you've stopped trying to make a point and are set on irritating me.

No I'm not, you just haven't given me anything worthwhile to argue with so far. Honest. Wouldn't you ask for facts or proof if I supported an idea that seemed false to you?

If you made a positive claim about the OP or mixed group dynamics, I could just as easily ask for SCIENCE from you.

And that would be perfectly fair game and I would gladly provide such science, I don't like to support theories that I can't back up.

Let's assume that if the military plans on fielding mixed combat units, it will spend significant resources to minimize sexual harassment and rape. Please answer these questions so I know where we disagree.

1. Are men and women are the same, physically and psychologically? If not, what are some of the differences relevant to war?
2. If men and women are different, should the military adjust its standards to suit women? What effect would this would have on the morale of male soldiers?
3. Does adding women to a group of men affect group dynamics and cohesion? If so, how?
4. Are people generally more comfortable seeing men suffer and die?
5. Considering all of the above and the military's purpose, do you think it's worth trying to field mixed combat units?

You are asking me a lot of questions, but are you even able to answer them and back your answers up adequately? I would say (note the "would" that indicates that I don't state that as a universal fact), rather spontaneously and based on what I read and observed, that most of what you asked me really depends on the individual rather than the gender.

[Razorgirl]

All A aren't B is bullshit logic and dumbs down efficiency. What we're seeing is that Men are expendable on one hand, yet are naturally protective of Women on the other. It may not be true for every individual, but we're not screening individuals for this and it's ridiculous to try. Integrated units don't work.

[Grandmaster Yoda]

We might as well segregate all men and all women because that also reduces the odds of rape and manipulation. We should just take bikini bottom and push it somewhere else!

[Sourpuss]

It is in men's nature to sexually harass and rape women? How many women have you raped and sexually harassed lately?

I do notice that violence in all forms tends to follow military personnel wherever they go. All throughout history. I wonder why this is? I suspect it has something to do with encouraging people to be comfortable with violence.