[Peaceful Defense]

A friend of mine once told me that Christianity was not a religion or a philosophy but a relationship with God. Philosophy as I understand it is about asking questions about the truth of reality and if our knowledge of it is correct. Religion in comparison is an incorrect interpretation of reality by my friends definition. So my friend was saying that he does not need philosophy because his interpretation of reality is in his mind correct. And that because his interpretation of Christianity is correct it is not a religion. By observing this I have concluded that what he is really saying is that his beliefs infallible.

Q: Are your beliefs infallible? How do you know?
Q: Do you define religion the way my friend does.
Q: What happens when you meet some one that claims there beliefs are infallible but opposite of yours.

[xezene]

Q: Are your beliefs infallible? How do you know?

All beliefs are fallible. This can be demonstrated by simple observation and logic.

Q: Do you define religion the way my friend does?

I would define "religion" as a) a power structure of faith, b) a set of dogmatic beliefs of the world, and c) worshipping something based on what someone told you -- ie., Christianity is a religion because it tells its followers that Jesus existed/said this & that/is God's son, and the followers believe it without verifying this on their own; trust of authority above one's own is central to religion's power.

Q: What happens when you meet some one that claims there beliefs are infallible but opposite of yours?

Generally? I do this ->

That is a very funny thing for someone to say. It makes them sound very insecure.

[LookingGlass]

First off, your friend in this instance and his thoughts about religion, is quite interesting. But I'd like to bring this to a simple understanding of the words. A religion is a philosophy LIVED -- of course Christianity is a religion, as one must live the philosophy in order to be Christian -- I.E. live according to the precepts and principles of "Christ". A philosophy alone without practice does not prove anything, it is merely rhetoric. Rhetoric begins to take shape in a real practical way in ones experience, that is when one begins to verify the "theories" in them -- or test their theories of their philosophies only when they live them. And to live the life which makes it more than theories, but makes it come into the realms of verification, individual proofs, and evolution of theories based on the testing of them, creates a religion. But this is a religion of another class, not the religion we know now, which is pretty much a crystallization of the merit of a real religion, i.e. that is constantly tested and one must prove all things, verify all things and take nothing for fact unless one has experienced definitely.

A philosophy, for instance, like one about reality, like is it real or not. This alone one can say and never prove anything, it can just be their philosophical thinking -- rhetoric. But it would come in the realm of religion, when they begin to try to prove this through certain practices and or methods. Then through accumulating experience and knowledge, they will then know what helps in the process of experiencing what is 'real reality' and what inhibits it. That is they gain "knowledge of self and self in relationship to form". This would be the formation of religion, but the not crystallized religion where no one knows anything nor attempts to verify anything.

Answering Questions:

1) I don't put stock in beliefs. I want to know definitely. So nothing is infallible. I would not be satisfied with a belief alone. If I thought it infallible, then I would be in a illusion. verify everything believe nothing.

2) No I do not define it as your friend, I believe the above answers this question. Your friend doesn't seem to want to put Christianity under the label of "religion" due to the stigma that the word gets. But it is very much a religion, a crystallized one at that which is "fixed" or has been reformed many times again to fit one particular philosophy which had nothing in common with its original intents and purposes, imho. It is more of a religion, in the crystallized sense than anything else, as it is fueled with so much dogma and traditions.

3)I do nothing -- unless they attempt to condemn what I have come to know. I am free to let people be as they are and have their thinking. I do not need to respond or debate with them over it. I don't need to win them over, I could not give them my understanding, which is a by product of my experience/practical labors with the knowledge I have acquired which will not be the same as theres. If they wanted to discuss some points, then we could do this and what "belief is" and how a "belief" is not someone owns.

[Munchies]

philosphy is an inner science and is mind expanding.
Religion is a closed minded system with selfish motives.

Religion can only give you empty words which you fill with meaning, while philosophy is finding your own truth and creating your own moralistic religion.

now go forth my children and spread my truth,

Munchies




i think ill make that my signature

[lirulin]

This about sums it up for me:

"Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."

Philosophy is ideas (at least, it's supposed to be). Religion is beliefs. I fucking hate beliefs.

[Munchies]

thats just what i said douche

exact same underlying principal... i know im inspiring but fk lol

[lirulin]

No, it really isn't....

[Lucretius]

A friend of mine once told me that Christianity was not a religion or a philosophy but a relationship with God.

This is only an attempt to distinguish it from other religions (not to mention a cliche.)

Q: Are your beliefs infallible? How do you know?

Of course not.

Q: Do you define religion the way my friend does.

No, I define it the way any dictionary defines it.

Q: What happens when you meet some one that claims there beliefs are infallible but opposite of yours.

Depending on my mood and the context of the situation, either fulminations or doleful silence.

[peterk]

Religion came first, and philosophy is an abstraction of religious thinking.

[Apollo Celestio]

philosphy is an inner science and is mind expanding.
Religion is a closed minded system with selfish motives.

Religion can only give you empty words which you fill with meaning, while philosophy is finding your own truth and creating your own moralistic religion.

now go forth my children and spread my truth,

Munchies




i think ill make that my signature

What deduction.
Are we defining terms or re-defining them to suit our preferences?

Philosophy - A frame of reference that often includes labels and passive instruction (one should..) Ideas.
Religion - A frame of reference that is more concrete but also presents ideas (with the labels, especially eastern religion) and codes of spirituality (which I define as religion in the real world, feelings and actions.)
Deity and his will/histories are often included.

Now, for the questions..

Q: Are your beliefs infallible? How do you know?

Subjective realities.. nobody knows anything objective..objectively speaking. But within our subjective realities are many objective things, subjectively speaking. :P So.. yes and no.

Q: Do you define religion the way my friend does?

I provided my definition above of religion. I understand why he/she defines it this way though. The issue is that religion is becoming something of a bad word, a stain of the past in a post Christian society.. so Christians are trying to emphasize the connection to God they receive through the Holy Spirit and prayer. Think "God loves you and has a plan for your life" <- That is in that vein of thinking and as far as Christianity goes, it's not wrong in any way other than the fact that it re defines words.

Q: What happens when you meet some one that claims there beliefs are infallible but opposite of yours.

I'll tell you when I encounter it. But with differing beliefs, well.. I set information traps and critique thought.