Gaza Under Fire: Israel air assault claims civilian lives

**Drift** · 12-18-2011 03:58 AM

@amanda32

Your defiance of looking at things from a neutral angle is more disturbing than frustrating. You cannot seem to accept that had there been no occupation, there would be no resistance.

You probably even think that the shooting of Mustafa Tamimi, a Palestinian protester, in the head was right because he was Palestinians, living on Palestinian soil and speaking against the illegal occupation of Palestine.
They who shot him came to him on his land. He didn't come to them.

That one example is epitome to the whole conflict that is going on.

The Powerful vs. Powerless
I suppose it is fun to defend the Powerful since they are, as you said, "winning" which you have yet to tell me what you mean by that. If their purpose was to find peace then they're not getting it and they are certainly not pursuing it. So what is the purpose of Israel's actions?

**amanda32** · 12-18-2011 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Drift

@amanda32

Your defiance of looking at things from a neutral angle is more disturbing than frustrating. You cannot seem to accept that had there been no occupation, there would be no resistance.

You probably even think that the shooting of Mustafa Tamimi, a Palestinian protester, in the head was right because he was Palestinians, living on Palestinian soil and speaking against the illegal occupation of Israel.
They who shot him came to him on his land. He didn't come to them.

That one example is epitome to the whole conflict that is going on.

The Powerful vs. Powerless
I suppose it is fun to defend the Powerful since they are, as you said, "winning" which you have yet to tell me what you mean by that. If their purpose was to find peace then they're not getting it and they are certainly not pursuing it. So what is the purpose of Israel's actions?

And you imagine yourself to be neutral, sitting in your safe suburban house in the US without rockets being shot at your house ? I'm coming to the end of my patience with people like yourself who pretend you are the only ones who see things clearly because you regurgitate what you hear on the news "Israel is bad".

You said there would be no reistance if Israel hadn't occupied. I pointed out that Israel was attacked by 3 countries in 1948 and attacked again in 1967 -- before they ever took Gaza or the West Bank!

So I gues it's the State of Israel you're aruging then -- the U.N. Shouldn't have given it to them. Look up the Balfour Declaration. Better yet, look up how the Jews bought large chunks of land FROM THE TURKS AND ARABS -- WHICH MEANS THEY SOLD IT -- and then tell me again that they don't have a right to be there.

In a military biography of Moshe Dayan, the early Zionist activity is described this way:

•“Using Rothschild’s money, these Jews purchased land from absentee Turkish landlords. To the Arab tenant farmers, the transfer of land from Turkish to Jewish ownership was of little consequence since the Jews rehired them as agricultural workers.”
By the time Israel became a state in 1948, JNF owned 12.5 percent of all the land of Israel on which 80 percent of Israel’s population now lives. With this ownership came the responsibility of transforming the land into a beautiful and fertile area that would be a suitable home for the new state.

Now -- Who has a right to the land?

Or look again at why the Palestians are even in Gaza. Because they FLED when they heard the Arabs were going to attack! They FLED because they were warned by the arab countries -- the Israelis stayed and fought. The Israeli's from Lebanon and Syria fled TO Israel to protect it. They were also KICKED OUT of the Arab countries they'd resided in for centuries.

"With the United Nations resolution on the partition of Palestine in November 1947, Arab riots broke out against numerous Jewish communities throughout the Arab world. Jewish shops, homes and synagogues were burned and looted; hundreds of Jews were murdered, thousands were imprisoned, their movement was restricted, emigration to Israel banned and many Jews were deprived of their citizenship. Jews who at one time were influential in commerce suddenly lost their holdings; bank accounts belonging to Jews were frozen, and property valued at millions of dollars was confiscated. As in previous centuries, Jews were further removed from government agencies and their admission to public office was severely restricted. They lost their means of survival and became hostages in their own countries of birth and origin. Consequently, they could no longer remain there. Where once Jewish communities flourished and thrived, as in Iraq, Egypt and Syria, their traces have been erased, as Jews in large numbers were compelled to uproot and to emigrate, and they were forced to leave all their property behind."

Between 1948 and 1976 the Jews were mistreated, murdered and or expelled from the Arab countries -- so they went to the land their people had PURCHASED for them -- which had been a backwater until they moved in and with Rothchild's money made it vibrant again. They say that Britan unlawfully gave it to the Jews -- not true, they simply recognized that it was theirs.

Hammas is a terrorist organization. Think about what that means! Terrorist Jihad Hammas. Brainwash their children to become suicide bombers and their women too. You want to throw stones at Israel and disregard this. It's unbelievable. You want to say it's all because they're in their land. Well,you know what -- it wouldn't BE their land if their pals who are still supplying them weapons now hadsn't attacked them!

And what happened when they gave it back? They turned it into a terrorist training camp and launched thousands of missiles at Israel and all you guys have to say is NOT MANY ISRAELI'S DIED FROM THEM?! How many would make you happy? How many is enough for YOU -- sitting in your cozy, safe home -- to justify them taking out their military operations for?

You continue to choose to ignore the call to war of the very countries that are supplying arms to Hammas. You choose to downplay the FACT that they have rockets that can hit major cities in Israel and put 1,000,000 Israeli's at risk. You choose to not care that the town of Serdot lives in constant fear -- that the children have 18 seconds to find shelter from the time the sirens go off. Rockets that are launched almost DAILY. That they routinely launch them when they know the kids are waiting for their school busses.

I don't hear anyone ever getting up in arms when a suicide bomber kills innocent civilians in Israel.

Have you even considered what Israel would be like if Hammas won?

Do you know that it's the big bully Israel that supplies Palestians with their electricity -- for free? Or that they send trucks full of food and supplies to them on a regular basis which are sometimes overtaken by armed Hammas soldiers so thay can keep them from their people and say there's a shortage much like the rebels in Africa do. Do you know that a large percentage of Palestians commute everyday to work in Israel? Are you aware that Israel warns the Palestians when and where they're going to attack by dropping leaflets, sending text messages or making phone calls and that Hammas calls for innocent civilians to act as human sheilds at these very places and then has the nerve to turn around and say it's Israel's fault that innocent civlians die?

Or that Hammas fires their rockets from schools or densly populated areas to protect themselves like the cowards they are?

And these are the people you want to rule Israel??? They'd turn it into a hell hole like Tehran in no time flat and they'd slit every Israeli throat without an ounce of mercy. Look how little they value the life of their own people! Look up how Hammas and Fatah treated the Palestians!!

Don't type again until you've looked these things up -- you piss me off and waste my time with your ignorance.

**sly** · 12-18-2011 07:36 AM

@amanda32
I don't care about the historic bullshit you are spurting here, the first fact is that Israel has committed numerous war crimes and continues doing so, and the other fact is that you defend and adore their policies(killing and suppressing other human beings that is). Most of your posts are based on what-if scenarios, appeals to fear and arguments from intimidation.

@Drift
Don't take her standpoint too seriously, she considers Muslims as a spawn of Satan, and therefore justifies Israeli actions. You in the contrary, are a sane person, with an independent mind.

Here are the results from UN's fact finding missions:
List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should also take a read in the Goldstone report(500+pages fact finding mission), I have difficulties finding it right now, as Israel has launched a massive distortion campaign making the report quite hard to find!
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...one_Report.pdf

''The Human Rights Council has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined.[1]''

**whisperycat** · 12-18-2011 08:24 AM

The Goldstone report can be downloaded from here

The Goldstone Report: The Legacy of the Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict

**Dov** · 12-18-2011 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by sly

You should also take a read in the Goldstone report(500+pages fact finding mission), I have difficulties finding it right now, as Israel has launched a massive distortion campaign making the report quite hard to find!

Huh?

I don't want to get involved in your debate with amanda32, but the "massive distortion campaign" caught my attention. What are you talking about?

**Drift** · 12-18-2011 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by amanda32

And you imagine yourself to be neutral, sitting in your safe suburban house in the US without rockets being shot at your house ? I'm coming to the end of my patience with people like yourself who pretend you are the only ones who see things clearly because you regurgitate what you hear on the news "Israel is bad"

I don't live in the U.S. - that's how much you know me [ ! ]

"I'm coming to the end of my patience with people like yourself who pretend you are the only ones who see things clearly because you regurgitate what you hear on the news "Palestine is bad"... and that only Israel is suffering when it is the one inflicting most pain and damage. Even the map of Israel over the years can tell you how well they have been doing so towards Palestinians and their land.

Continue the house theme
Let's all imagine; a scenario where a man-made rocket hits the house yet I have the resources available to rebuild it again, a hospital with all the medicine and expertise required to deal with injuries and a strong army force that can fight back and defend me. There isn't much that the other side can do to my house.
Then there are the other scenarios of the other side; house demolishion granted by the Israeli court whose law does not abide by international law and I'm incapable of rebuilding because I am financially struggling and/or don't have access to the materials required to build a stable home // house eviction to allow Jewish settlers in a house that I have spent years and tried so hard to create protection to my family especially the children who don't deserve their future to be robbed // Occupational activities that go on in my land on a daily basis with some random arrests under no valid reason[s]
.... are you really that pathetic to see how unbalanced this whole mess is.

Some actions that Israel commits are very similar to that of the Nazi era
I never supported Nazim and never will
I never supported Zionism and never will

If you have chosen to then say that you support Zionism and stop dodging the main topic of this thread argument, drop arguing the heart of the issue by re-drafting its history, spilling inaccurate history and bringing in other countries to define your stance.

These activities that go on in Occupied Palestine are not necessary but only to the Zionists' aim that it can only be a Jewish-only entity - FACT

**Drift** · 12-18-2011 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dov

Huh?

I don't want to get involved in your debate with amanda32, but the "massive distortion campaign" caught my attention. What are you talking about?

Propaganda

Claiming that something didn't happen when it did
Such as the killing of Mohammed Al Dorra

Plus, making the true resources hard to find
e.g. when I do a Google search of an article's title names "reasons why Palestine has the right to exist found in the UN" - - I don't get the article; I get a list of resources about recognizing Israel.

PS: I'm having difficulties with posting around this site

**whisperycat** · 12-18-2011 09:48 AM

A few tidbits, let the pro-Israelis knock themselves out on spinning it :
67. The razing of farmland and the destruction of greenhouses are expected to further worsen food insecurity despite the increased quantities of food items allowed into Gaza since the beginning of the military operations. Dependence on food assistance increases. Levels of stunting and thinness in children and of anaemia prevalence in children and pregnant women were worrying even before the military operations. The hardship caused by the extensive destruction of shelter (the United Nations Development Programme reported 3,354 houses completely destroyed and 11,112 partially damaged) and the resulting displacement particularly affects children and women. The destruction of water and sanitation infrastructure (such as the destruction of the Namar wells and the attack against the water treatment plant described in chapter XIII) aggravated the pre-existing situation. Even before the military operations, 80 per cent of the water supplied in Gaza did not meet the World Health Organization’s standards for drinking water. The discharge of untreated or partially treated wastewater into the sea is a further health hazard worsened by the military operations.
68. The military operations and resulting casualties subjected the beleaguered Gaza health sector to additional strain. Hospitals and ambulances were targeted by Israeli attacks. Patients with chronic health conditions could not be given priority in hospitals faced with an influx of patients with life-threatening injuries. Patients injured during the hostilities were often discharged quickly to free beds. The long-term health impact of these early discharges, as well as of weapons containing substances such as tungsten and white phosphorous, remains a source of concern. While the exact number of people who will suffer permanent disabilities is still unknown, the Mission understands that many persons who sustained traumatic injuries during the conflict still face the risk of permanent disability owing to complications and inadequate follow-up and physical rehabilitation.

**Drift** · 12-18-2011 09:50 AM

Norman Finkelstein dismantles the logic of zionism

**sly** · 12-18-2011 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dov

Huh?
I don't want to get involved in your debate with amanda32, but the "massive distortion campaign" caught my attention. What are you talking about?