Neat website about Obama's campaign promises fulfilled or not fulfilled. - Page 2

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This is a discussion on Neat website about Obama's campaign promises fulfilled or not fulfilled. within the Current Events forums, part of the Topics of Interest category; Originally Posted by Shahada If the parties are so polarized shouldn't he get more done, since there'd be no reason ...

  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    If the parties are so polarized shouldn't he get more done, since there'd be no reason to try to win the supporters of the other party or please them? Instead he's bent over backwards for the Republicans time and time again, and the parties are looking more and more the same every day. When the Republicans get in power, the Republican base gets what they want for the most part. When Democrats get in power, even with supermajorities in both houses of Congress, the results look like what you'd get under a third term of Bush. Last December he went against his own party and worked with Republicans to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. Doesn't that kind of stuff bother you? It's why Obama won't get my vote in 2012. If I wanted another Republican I'd vote for one.
    fair points. and very valid. certainly obama has not been everything i hoped he would be. i guess what i meant with the polarization is that it seems he does have to compromise a bit and tread lightly so that he can get something done that will stick, because when he tries to hold to bigger (more 'liberal') promises, there is a huge backlash from Republicans wanting to overturn it all. he's been put in this tough situation in which he's disappointing the Democrats who voted for him by not making the changes he promised, but at the same time if he does make these changes as promised, they're going to get knocked down by the Republicans because the animosity between the parties is so great. take the health care deal for example.

    am i entirely happy with obama? no. but i feel for him. he's playing a lose-lose game.

  2. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by katienicole View Post
    fair points. and very valid. certainly obama has not been everything i hoped he would be. i guess what i meant with the polarization is that it seems he does have to compromise a bit and tread lightly so that he can get something done that will stick, because when he tries to hold to bigger (more 'liberal') promises, there is a huge backlash from Republicans wanting to overturn it all. he's been put in this tough situation in which he's disappointing the Democrats who voted for him by not making the changes he promised, but at the same time if he does make these changes as promised, they're going to get knocked down by the Republicans because the animosity between the parties is so great. take the health care deal for example.

    am i entirely happy with obama? no. but i feel for him. he's playing a lose-lose game.
    I understand how you can get that impression: The GOP is indeed vociferously opposed to anything Obama does, and the Obama administration as well as the media have done much to portray every failing of Obama's as the fault of the GOP. But we should examine the issue more closely, and we can start by the health care bill you were just talking about. If you look at the link I posted the last page you can see that Obama took the initiative on cutting deals with pharmaceutical and hospital companies to neuter health care reform, including getting rid of the public option. The GOP beat him up about the health care reform, but they were in the minority. Obama never fought the GOP and never fought for the public option, despite the fact that the public option had the support of a clear majority of Americans. In fact when the health care bill became so bad that progressives like Dennis Kucinich wouldn't support it, Obama strongarmed these progressive Dems into voting for the bill. Why couldn't he do that for the conservative Democrats who wouldn't vote for a good healthcare plan? Last year's tax cut renewals were more of the same: Obama took the lead on passing those tax cuts, in complete violation of his promise to repeal them. And it should also be pointed out that letting those tax cuts expire for the wealthy was also very popular, with 70-80% support for it if I remember correctly.

    When you see things like this it becomes hard to believe Obama just can't get things done. He's one of the most powerful men in the world, and he's gotten a lot accomplished: Sent thousands more troops to Afghanistan for one. I think after a certain point we have to be willing to entertain the idea that Obama is not doing these things because he wants to do good but has no choice, but because he actually believes in the same type of radical free market ideology that the Republicans do.
    Maiden, Paragon and Sillia Rosa thanked this post.

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    I understand how you can get that impression: The GOP is indeed vociferously opposed to anything Obama does, and the Obama administration as well as the media have done much to portray every failing of Obama's as the fault of the GOP. But we should examine the issue more closely, and we can start by the health care bill you were just talking about. If you look at the link I posted the last page you can see that Obama took the initiative on cutting deals with pharmaceutical and hospital companies to neuter health care reform, including getting rid of the public option. The GOP beat him up about the health care reform, but they were in the minority. Obama never fought the GOP and never fought for the public option, despite the fact that the public option had the support of a clear majority of Americans. In fact when the health care bill became so bad that progressives like Dennis Kucinich wouldn't support it, Obama strongarmed these progressive Dems into voting for the bill. Why couldn't he do that for the conservative Democrats who wouldn't vote for a good healthcare plan? Last year's tax cut renewals were more of the same: Obama took the lead on passing those tax cuts, in complete violation of his promise to repeal them. And it should also be pointed out that letting those tax cuts expire for the wealthy was also very popular, with 70-80% support for it if I remember correctly.

    When you see things like this it becomes hard to believe Obama just can't get things done. He's one of the most powerful men in the world, and he's gotten a lot accomplished: Sent thousands more troops to Afghanistan for one. I think after a certain point we have to be willing to entertain the idea that Obama is not doing these things because he wants to do good but has no choice, but because he actually believes in the same type of radical free market ideology that the Republicans do.
    i really appreciate your response. and i do agree to an extent. and am more than happy to agree to disagree on the whole. :) i live in a heavily Republican area, which may have affected my perspectives a bit. i think at this point i'm somewhat sympathetic to anyone doing anything remotely aligned with liberal ideology. i need to move.

  4. #14

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    Like almost all Obama promises it's mindless fluff that sounds good and will win votes, and since this kind of thing helped him get elected I think it served its "point" very well.
    people who don't look at all into politics or world affairs (most of the 12-25 age group) actually think Obama is an upgrade over Bush and an 'okay' president, precisely because of his smooth talks and promises of change, when the fucker should be impeached yesterday.
    Shahada and Paragon thanked this post.

  5. #15

    I'll have to look into more but he strikes me as a good man.

  6. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillia Rosa View Post
    I'll have to look into more but he strikes me as a good man.
    you have to look past the 'man', and look at his actions

  7. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Cover3 View Post
    people who don't look at all into politics or world affairs (most of the 12-25 age group) actually think Obama is an upgrade over Bush and an 'okay' president, precisely because of his smooth talks and promises of change, when the fucker should be impeached yesterday.
    Impeached? Why? OK, I understand that would take an entire thread to discuss, and I'm kind of jumping in here in the middle of an ongoing discussion. But it's one thing to disagree with his policies, another to write "the fucker should be impeached yesterday". That strikes me as harsh. I happen to be one of those who think Obama is huge improvement over Bush, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything he's done. But I DO consume an enormous amount of political discourse and consider myself well informed. I'm just wondering, are you attacking him from the left or from the right?

  8. #18

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleon227 View Post
    Impeached? Why?
    Where to start? If you just want to go with shady, ambiguously illegal things, and not just really-terrible-things-that-while-morally-repulsive-are-probably-technically-legal, how about...

    Authorizing the murder of American citizens without evidence, completely circumventing the right to due process?

    Has cracked down harder on government whistle blowers than Bush, arguably curtailing the freedom of the press.

    Acted as an accessory to Bush administration era torture by shielding them from prosecution.

    Has authorized, either explicitly or implicitly through inaction, the torture of Bradley Manning, an American citizen, who has not been convicted of any crime.

    Prosecuted Omar Khadr, a child, using evidence gained through illegal torture.

    Continues to deny habeas corpus to detainees.

    Dropped charges against CIA officers who destroyed evidence of their wrongdoing.

    Continues rendition of suspected terrorists to countries where they could be tortured.

    This is just stuff where I think you could have a tenuous basis for impeachment, not even going into all the horrible policy Obama has wrought. If you think he is a significant improvement over Bush I have to ask what kind of metric you're using, because he is just as bad or worse in almost every area that I can see except maybe social issues, and even that's a close one.

  9. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    Where to start? If you just want to go with shady, ambiguously illegal things, and not just really-terrible-things-that-while-morally-repulsive-are-probably-technically-legal, how about...

    Authorizing the murder of American citizens without evidence, completely circumventing the right to due process?

    Has cracked down harder on government whistle blowers than Bush, arguably curtailing the freedom of the press.

    Acted as an accessory to Bush administration era torture by shielding them from prosecution.

    Has authorized, either explicitly or implicitly through inaction, the torture of Bradley Manning, an American citizen, who has not been convicted of any crime.

    Prosecuted Omar Khadr, a child, using evidence gained through illegal torture.

    Continues to deny habeas corpus to detainees.

    Dropped charges against CIA officers who destroyed evidence of their wrongdoing.

    Continues rendition of suspected terrorists to countries where they could be tortured.

    This is just stuff where I think you could have a tenuous basis for impeachment, not even going into all the horrible policy Obama has wrought. If you think he is a significant improvement over Bush I have to ask what kind of metric you're using, because he is just as bad or worse in almost every area that I can see except maybe social issues, and even that's a close one.
    OK, thanks, now I understand where you're coming from (and I'll assume, until I hear differently, that Cover3 agrees with all or most of this). So you are attacking him from the left.

    The metric I'm using is one of style, not policy, because he has 100% control over HOW he does things but does not have 100% control over policy (you know, separation of powers, etc.). But you have to be aware that there was just an election last November where Republicans took over the House backed by a Tea Party bent on making draconian slashes to social services, a lot of which are ideological. The big difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush's approach (like most Republicans) is "my way or the highway" whereas Obama prefers compromise. He is aware that half the country does not agree with him and realizes that he is the leader of ALL the people, not just the one's who voted for him. Are you suggesting that he should take on Bush's "my way or the highway" attitude, only from the left?

  10. #20

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    Last edited by napoleon227; 04-12-2011 at 01:17 PM. Reason: damn browser duplicated my post


 
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