An overlooked consideration in the last 62 mass shootings in America

Originally Posted by tanstaafl28

If anything, all atheism does is prove god(s) obsolete.

I would say you're mistaken there, and that all that religion does is fail to prove god(s) exist.

Otherwise, I'm damn glad someone made the point you did.

Originally Posted by jeffbobs

What consequence are you talking about being taken away?
So i guess hellfire and damnation ain't too high on the priority list of priests who are sex offenders?
"it only took me 50 times to learn sticking my penis in an altar boy was wrong But at least i learnt my lesson and god knows i am sorry so here i come god!"

If you're going to argue against religionists, at least educate yourself presenting an arguments properly rather than just going for the lowest common denominator of the opposition's side in an O'Reilly-esque attack with the grace of a five-fingered prostate exam.

Originally Posted by Arclight

You managed to cram three* retro-logical fallacies into such a short post and still completely missed the point.. That takes talent... Well done!!!.

I will gladly take an infraction just for the sheer pleasure of calling you a dim witted inbred and telling you to go fuck yourself. :)

*Composition, Red Herring and Straw man.

And you, Arclight, have asserted right off the bat that Atheism causes the devaluing of lives whereas it's not ever been shown to degrade moral standings any more than a religious position (there was a lovely attempted tongue-in-cheek joke about how God simply can't stop school shootings because he's not allowed in school. Huzzah for the justification of death and suffering that only religion can bring); and doing so despite the fact that the religious views and stances of the shooters weren't actually mentioned in the article.

So, I'm going to have to ask you to stop forcing your irrelevant vilifications of people who have different opinions into conversations about more serious matters than your own personal superstition.

I will gladly take an infraction just for the sheer pleasure of calling you a dim witted inbred and telling you to go fuck yourself. :)

And I would take an infraction to highlight that you're very well a decade older than I am, and are far from acting like it in any sense.

Originally Posted by MissJordan

If you're going to argue against religionists, at least educate yourself presenting an arguments properly rather than just going for the lowest common denominator of the opposition's side in an O'Reilly-esque attack with the grace of a five-fingered prostate exam.

.

let me explain irony to you in the simplist terms possible. It's like goldy and bronzy but its made out of iron.

I find it astounding how one man's observational opinion can cause so much reaction in others.
So much irrational fear.. So much need to be right.
I really don't care if you all agree or disagree.. It's what I believe and It should not extract so much insecurity in others.. But it does. No one can actually prove it is not a cause.
As Spock would say.. "Fascinating"

Originally Posted by Arclight

I find it astounding how one man's observational opinion can cause so much reaction in others.
So much irrational fear.. So much need to be right.
I really don't care if you all agree or disagree.. It's what I believe and It should not extract so much insecurity in others.. But it does. No one can actually prove it is not a cause.
As Spock would say.. "Fascinating"

You made a hugely uneducated comment -- with no reason behind making the claim, or making the claim on this topic -- and then obnoxiously stood behind it when insulting others, and now you think you're above it all and that other people are just 'insecure' when they call you out on your misinformation.

You've dragged the intellectual capacity of this board down, and it's likely that you're the only person who'd disagree with that.

Think before you post.

Originally Posted by Arclight

I find it astounding how one man's observational opinion can cause so much reaction in others

The problem that people have with your opinion is that it's not based in observation.
The US is the most religious country of the first world and it has the highest intentional homicide rate. Countries like France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Japan which are much more secular have 1/4 or less of the homicides (in percentage). If what you said were true, we should see a trend reflecting this idea but we don't: there are very religious countries where lots of murders happen while some of them are very peaceful and the same thing goes for secular countries.

Originally Posted by RobynC

@tanstaafl

That whole thing sounds largely like a bunch of hooey -- they're basically saying that only men are capable of violence; that countries act the way they do because they're run by men and if women ruled the world the world would be more peaceful.

That's ridiculous, the most power hungry and aggressive usually end up in control so if women ruled the world, the most aggressive and power-hungry women would rule instead of men. And those types would be as likely to go to war.

I know what you mean. I am not in favor of anything that implies gender-bias, but in this instance I do think the data deserves to be investigated none-the-less.

Originally Posted by Diogenes

The problem that people have with your opinion is that it's not based in observation.
The US is the most religious country of the first world and it has the highest intentional homicide rate. Countries like France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Japan which are much more secular have 1/4 or less of the homicides (in percentage). If what you said were true, we should see a trend reflecting this idea but we don't: there are very religious countries where lots of murders happen while some of them are very peaceful and the same thing goes for secular countries.

:

The relation also holds in at the state level too between religiosity and gun deaths (although one could come up with this rather linear relation being an artifact of state racial composition, although outliers like utah and alaska would argue against it somewhat)

Ok, I posted this in the main thread on this subject, but feel it fits here as it is very much overlooked.

When You Tie Shootings to Mental Illness » Ashley Miller

Originally Posted by bellisaurius

:

The relation also holds in at the state level too between religiosity and gun deaths (although one could come up with this rather linear relation being an artifact of state racial composition, although outliers like utah and alaska would argue against it somewhat)

I think that the correlation between gun deaths and religiosity exists not because of a causal relationship between the two but because both are often strongly linked with a lesser degree of education.

Before any religious person gets offended: I'm not saying at all that you can be religious only if you're ignorant, I don't believe it and I think that people who believe that are either ignorant themselves or stupid, I'm just indicating the link between the two things. Personally I think it has nothing to do with religion per se but with the fact that it's the dominant position (being religious, I mean) and transitioning to an alternative position requires more critical thinking -unless of course you've been brought up in an alternative tradition- than staying in the dominant. Reverse the demographics of religiosity and you'll probably see the opposite trend: frankly I'm already seeing the spreading of ignorance - particularly in philosophy - in the atheist population after it has increased in size in the last 10 years or so.

Originally Posted by Diogenes

I think that the correlation between gun deaths and religiosity exists not because of a causal relationship between the two but because both are often strongly linked with a lesser degree of education..

That's my general thought too; there's some correlation going on underneath that get's caught by religiosity.

btw, that's an intriguing note to make about the rise of popularity in philosophy (defined by rising numbers, the law of large numbers kicking in, and therefore a regression to mean in terms of quality critical thinking). I'd be curious to hear what some of the egregious examples were, as I don't follow that field in real time. Feel free to PM me, as this thread doesn't need even more hijacking...