Ask Me About Agnosticism

I keep seeing all these "ask me about..." threads and thought it was high time to set the record straight about agnostics. We are not all fence-sitting-intellectually-lazy-mealy-mouthed-wimps afraid to call ourselves atheists or believers. Quite the opposite, many of us are firm in our conviction that we just don't know if there are God(s) or not.

Some of us aren't even sure if the question itself is anything more then mystical gibberish along the lines of asking what is north of north or which way is up when there is no down. Nor does it matter to me personally whether something makes sense or not. What matters is whether it is useful to me and if it happens to also make sense then that's just an added bonus (if nothing else it makes it easier to remember.) I have great respect for mysticism as another means for personal growth and would never dismiss it out of hand.

Quite simply for me life is a miracle. I have no idea if it is supernatural or natural in origin or beyond all such possible labels. I just know it inspires awe and wonder despite all the horror and revulsion it can also inspire. That's pretty miraculous if you think about it and pretty darn useful to boot. I have two kids and can testify that their existence requires no explanation or justification whatsoever as far as I'm concerned. My love for them requires no explanation or justification. It is what it is and I'm quite satisfied with it being the way it is and find it quite useful as well.

And last, but not least, is all this nonsense from Naturalists claiming everything is natural. As far as I'm concerned that's no different from saying you can have an up without a down, a back without a front, or a top without a bottom. Just so much mystical mumbo jumbo that might be useful in more situations then most mystical mumbo jumbo, but still doesn't make a lick of sense when you stop to think about it. As far as I can tell things like quantum Indeterminacy fit the definition of supernatural to a tee and are perfectly useful in a wide range of situations as well.

Well, that's enough of my rambling. Time to see what others have to say.

To me, despite any beliefs, nobody can ever KNOW anything about god existing or which religion is the truth, if any. For this reason, I am an agnostic.

I'm not even sure it's a terribly important question, outside of metaphysics. Regardless of where you might be on this issue, you still are responsible for your actions and your time here, despite His possibe existence. For me, that's a bit more compelling situation to have to deal with than how many angels can dance on a pin. (27....just in case you were wondering)

'Does god exist?' as an agnostic you shouldn't have to answer at all, but lets just say you HAVE to answer yes or no. Do you believe the existence of god (though possible) is probable? Whats your first reaction to this question?

My first reaction is, "What does it realy matter?"

Originally Posted by streetsweeper

'Does god exist?' as an agnostic you shouldn't have to answer at all, but lets just say you HAVE to answer yes or no. Do you believe the existence of god (though possible) is probable? Whats your first reaction to this question?

My first reaction is this is a classic example of begging the question. You might try going into politics or becoming a professional wrestler.

Originally Posted by Paulie

My first reaction is, "What does it realy matter?"

Sorry, I don’t think I clarified enough. I mean what is your initial reaction to 'does god exist, is it yes or no?

(What does anything matter? This question matters no less or more than anything else)

Originally Posted by streetsweeper

Sorry, I don’t think I clarified enough. I mean what is your initial reaction to 'does god exist, is it yes or no?

(What does anything matter? This question matters no less or more than anything else)

Sorry, but who won the 1908 world series just doesn't matter to me. If every question is of equal value to you, then ask yourself why you bother to ask this question.

Originally Posted by wuliheron

Sorry, but who won the 1908 world series just doesn't matter to me. If every question is of equal value to you, then ask yourself why you bother to ask this question.

There are two obvious ways to look at the meaning of a question, it’s meaning in relation to you and its meaning in relation to others. Paulie said 'What does it really matter' if he’d said ‘What does this really matter to me’ I won’t have said anything, because that would imply the question is being compared to personal value system. I understood that ‘What does it really matter’ was referring to the questions value, looked at from an objective sense, and compared to all other possible questions.

I bothered asking this question because it is important to me, individually. I myself am an Agnostic but I’m aware of the fact that I have measured up the probabilities in my mind, it is just not necessary for me to make any decisions for or against the existence of any deity. If I was forced to make a decision, based on current evidence/information I would have to say ‘no, deities do not exist'. I wondered if others would react differently.

Originally Posted by streetsweeper

There are two obvious ways to look at the meaning of a question, it’s meaning in relation to you and its meaning in relation to others. Paulie said 'What does it really matter' if he’d said ‘What does this really matter to me’ I won’t have said anything, because that would imply the question is being compared to personal value system. I understood that ‘What does it really matter’ was referring to the questions value, looked at from an objective sense, and compared to all other possible questions.

I bothered asking this question because it is important to me, individually. I myself am an Agnostic but I’m aware of the fact that I have measured up the probabilities in my mind, it is just not necessary for me to make any decisions for or against the existence of any deity. If I was forced to make a decision, based on current evidence/information I would have to say ‘no, deities do not exist'. I wondered if others would react differently.

This is the most tortured logic I've come across in awhile. I'll try to keep this as straightforward as I can.

First off, as far as I'm concerned nobody can ever choose to be agnostic anymore than you can choose to not know exactly how many atoms there are in the universe. You are either ignorant or you aren't and I'm not ashamed to say I'm ignorant on this issue. Nor am I ashamed to admit that I'm ignorant of how one would even begin to find an answer to such questions or that the question itself might be not only unanswerable, but totally irrelevant and inconsequential.

Second, if other people have a problem with my being ignorant there's nothing I can do about that. Over the years I've learned to often tell believers and atheists that I'm a Taoist instead of agnostic. Not because I'm ashamed of my ignorance, but because they find it unacceptable and tend to see it as an excuse to force their own beliefs on others. I refuse to encourage them to be rude and obnoxious in the name of self-righteousness. I don't care how much society might value such things, I don't.