Free will?

Do you believe we truly have free will, or is it just an illusion? Why do you believe this and, more importantly, How Do You KNOW?

I don't think we really do. Because of upbriging there is a lot of things I don't do because it is "wrong" to do them. Also I had a dream where I was a lesbian and my brain self censured me by waking me up when I was about to go into action. So I think upbringing, society, religion and subconcious are limitating our free will.

No, we really don't have free will. Most of us act within societies norms and therefore we have some constraints that we have to follow. Or what we will allow ourselves to do. True free will would require being brought up in a society with zero contraints. Which would be difficult to find. Some people do act outside of the norms, but end up being punished for it, such as Serial Killers and such. But, society tends to punish them. Because of that process of punishment, they also do not have complete free will.

No not really. I think we are controlled by a lot of unconscious processes and probably some really intricate algorithm working behind the scenes. But because we are unconscious of the algorithm operating we feel like we have free will.

If we do have free will how do you explain how it works?

Originally Posted by Flamethrower

I think we are controlled by a lot of unconscious processes and probably some really intricate algorithm working behind the scenes. But because we are unconscious of the algorithm operating we feel like we have free will.

But will is conscious, so why should unconscious processes be factored in?

I think that we are free at the very least in the sense of being individual agents. Even if everything we do is determined biologically, we are still each our own agent if there is no external agent (e.g. some ultimate puppeteer pulling strings as our agent)

I think we are able to learn and teach ourselves with free will, but ultimately react how we are taught... if that makes any sense. It seems that our conscious minds are in control and doing whatever we want, but the truth is all we do is observe and offer advice to our unconscious minds who do the stuff. Or at least, that is how I see it.

So yes, I think free will exists in some limited form.

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

But will is conscious, so why should unconscious processes be factored in?

Well, to clarify - I don't think we have free will and therefore I also don't think it is conscious. I think we are conscious and aware of some things we experience but that "free will" is an illusion.

Originally Posted by sprinkles

I think that we are free at the very least in the sense of being individual agents. Even if everything we do is determined biologically, we are still each our own agent if there is no external agent (e.g. some ultimate puppeteer pulling strings as our agent)

I think it is like evolution. Evolution does not require intervention from anywhere to operate - it is blind. But none the less the life forms that have evolved seem intricate as if some agent had a hand in things. So if we essentially run on some unconscious fancy algorithm we are not able to comprehend completely then free will could just be a "feeling" we are in control.

I've thought about this the other way around. Try figuring out how you would program a robot to have free will.... How might that work as an algorithm/biologically/mechanically?

I am assuming that if we have free will there is some mechanical process involved. (I mean you can point to some sort of mechanical processes in a brain that produces thought, emotions, abstractions etc....)

But if someone can refute me and explain how free will operates I am really keen to hear how it might be otherwise! I've tried to come up with an explanation for it but have so far any attempts seem to make it more and more unlikely..... I quite like the challenge of trying to explain it none the less!

(incidentally, I don't really care whether I actually have free will or not as I don't think it makes any difference. I feel like I do regardless of what the truth may be).

Originally Posted by Flamethrower

(incidentally, I don't really care whether I actually have free will or not as I don't think it makes any difference. I feel like I do regardless of what the truth may be).

My thoughts exactly. I think Christopher Hitchens put it best by saying, "I believe we have free will because we have no choice but to have it."

Belief in free will for me is belief in something merely because it gives us what we want (which is justice and order in society).