Free will?

You sad sacks are depressing. Of course we do. By 'we' I include the forces inherent in biology and everything sub-ego. Regardless of what actually happens, I have the ability to do anything in the realm of possibility. You might say the realm of possibility extinguishes free will but just because you are limited does not mean you are without will. Evolution might have determined everything I am, but I determine everything I can be.
I have free will. Do humans have free will? Depends on if you have any faith to believe in what you cannot see. And no I'm not talking about 'God'- I'm talking about faith in your ability as a human to act independently.

There will be no proof that we are acting on anything other than what can be seen, what can be rationalized, but the very belief that we have free will, proves free will.

I can't speak for others. I can only speak from my own personal experience.

I have free will within my own limits. For instance, when dealing in a situation where I'm faced with trauma, I still have a choice in choosing my own thoughts.

My free will is limited to my capacity within my own circumstances. Free will for me is one thing. Opportunity/privilege are another. To be able to extend my limits to increase more personal freedom? I think this for me, relates to creating the conditions in my life which will allow it- making choices that are helpful.

Ultimately, personal freedom for me is within the mind. Clarity being one of them, action, the other one. Not easy to achieve, needs constant self-checking.

Edit- I really like TheYellow's p.o.v. of possibilities!! It is about pushing our own limits, hence, growth.

Originally Posted by Dupree

My thoughts exactly. I think Christopher Hitchens put it best by saying, "I believe we have free will because we have no choice but to have it."

Christopher Hitchens rocks!

Originally Posted by Lucem

Belief in free will for me is belief in something merely because it gives us what we want (which is justice and order in society).

Or perhaps wanting to believe we have control over our own souls (which don't exist either!)

I have an analogy to compare this to.

Money, as in paper money, has no inherent worth except for it's material worth.
But we find worth in it because we must find worth in it. Our shared belief in the worth of money has to continue because it facilitates many benefits for society and for us.

To give up on believing that everyone has a free will would be giving up on many benefits that we gain from this shared belief. Law enforcement would lose it's legitimacy, our responsibility we take for our actions would be diminished the sense that we have control over our lives would be destroyed.

Even if we cannot legitimately claim to have a free will we must act as if we do.

Originally Posted by TheYellow

Evolution might have determined everything I am, but I determine everything I can be.
I have free will. Do humans have free will? Depends on if you have any faith to believe in what you cannot see. And no I'm not talking about 'God'- I'm talking about faith in your ability as a human to act independently.

If we are the product of evolution then how can we be sure we are acting by choice (evolution doesn't but is elaborate and effective all the same)? A large number of our actions are controlled by unconscious processes so how can we tell for sure that what feels like the choices we made aren't just the end result of a lot of unconscious processing behind the scenes in our own minds? (Without our conscious intervention or control).

Originally Posted by TheYellow

the very belief that we have free will, proves free will.

So if I believe I have fairies at the bottom of my garden does that prove there are fairies?

Originally Posted by Flamethrower

If we are the product of evolution then how can we be sure we are acting by choice (evolution doesn't but is elaborate and effective all the same)? A large number of our actions are controlled by unconscious processes so how can we tell for sure that what feels like the choices we made aren't just the end result of a lot of unconscious processing behind the scenes in our own minds? (Without our conscious intervention or control).

At the start I said I included biological forces into 'we', when saying we have free will. Who is to say that the process that created us is any less 'us' when considering who is making choices. Since the ego is created with the same unconscious effort, I envision a sharing of our consciousness with the driving force of life, whatever that may be...Mechanism of evolution, or something we cannot define yet.(Elan vital)
Anywho as that is another subject for debate, it's no concrete proof, but for me it's the philosophy I ascribe to.
I think the deciding factor is where you define your consciousness. Are you only your ego or are you something more. I tend to think we're a combination of both.

Originally Posted by Flamethrower

So if I believe I have fairies at the bottom of my garden does that prove there are fairies?

No. What I meant by that last statement is the fact that I believe in something regardless of the previous statements gives credence to free will-and my stubbornness. But really, the freedom for decision is what I was trying to underline. You can't use the same logic and apply it to fairies, although that would be fun.

Originally Posted by TheYellow

the very belief that we have free will, proves free will.

Where does your will to believe free will come from? And where did the will to believe that will proves free will come from? It's an infinite regression that doesn't prove anything except that you think you have free will. That's why it never will be proven if we actually have it, but we have no choice but to behave like we do.

Yes and no, as children it can be easy to be influenced by others, but we do have enough free will to make our own choices and choose not to listen to others. I have enough free will to choose to do something only if I want to and/or really have to. And since I'm so stubborn and individualistic, I never blindly follow what others do.

Originally Posted by Dupree

Where does your will to believe free will come from? And where did the will to believe that will proves free will come from? It's an infinite regression that doesn't prove anything except that you think you have free will. That's why it never will be proven if we actually have it, but we have no choice but to behave like we do.

I think my will to believe comes from the culmination of who I am consciously and unconsciously, and it's only subjective to believe if that is free will or not. I take the stance that it is free will, therefore defining that free will exists for me. By thinking I have free will-I allow myself the possibility to act as one with free will-and by allowing myself the possibility I create a decision that defines free will.

I'm confused by your last sentence, saying that we have no choice but to behave like we do. You very much have a choice to behave like you don't have free will, but you choose not to believe that because it would make your life feel horribly worthless, but you have the choice.

We either have free will or we don't.

Our beliefs about whether we have free will or not does not affect the fundamental issue of freedom of will. Belief in free will does not give us free will, it only gives us the illusion of it (if in fact we don't, that's the issue under debate). We can believe we have no free will yet we happen to have free will.

We are not talking about some people that get into a depressing cycle where they feel they have no control over their lives but of the capacity for us to choose a course of action amongst various options.

Do I choose to eat an apple or does a confluence of forces and factors outside of my control lead me to eat the apple?