The Experience Machine

Imagine a machine that could give us any pleasurable experience we want. It works by stimulating the brain so that you feel this overwhelming feeling of pleasure. We would not be able to tell that these experiences were not real.

If you were given the choice, would you choose the machine over real life?

Why or why not?

If you felt like you were living a pleasurable real life then I don't see the difference. Same thing.

Originally Posted by rememberthisusername

If you felt like you were living a pleasurable real life then I don't see the difference. Same thing.

But you could in a sense imagine a more pleasurable "real" life could you not?

Originally Posted by LemonSqueeze

But you could in a sense imagine a more pleasurable "real" life could you not?

I'm not sure I understand. Is the option a fake life that is indistinguishable from reality or something else? If it was just some kind of machine that I sit in while in my basement... then I would choose reality over that... but if it was simulated reality then I'd perhaps choose the simulated reality.

Originally Posted by rememberthisusername

I'm not sure I understand. Is the option a fake life that is indistinguishable from reality or something else? If it was just some kind of machine that I sit in while in my basement... then I would choose reality over that... but if it was simulated reality then I'd perhaps choose the simulated reality.

The option is to choose either a fake life that is indistinguishable from reality or reality.

But you would know that you have chosen the fake life. But the experience while in the fake life would be as real to you as your real life.

What i was trying to get at with my previous post was that even if you would describe your real life as pleasurable the fake life the experience machine would give you would be more pleasurable than that.

Originally Posted by LemonSqueeze

The option is to choose either a fake life that is indistinguishable from reality or reality.

But you would know that you have chosen the fake life. But the experience while in the fake life would be as real to you as your real life.

What i was trying to get at with my previous post was that even if you would describe your real life as pleasurable the fake life the experience machine would give you would be more pleasurable than that.

I'm not entirely sure then... difficult question. If the simulated reality included the same family/world/friends as the reality but with added pleasure then maybe. It would be a hard choice. Yourself?

I would choose real life because if I lived my life in the machine, real life would still be going on and I'd be neglecting my family and loved ones for my own benefit.

Originally Posted by LemonSqueeze

Imagine a machine that could give us any pleasurable experience we want. It works by stimulating the brain so that you feel this overwhelming feeling of pleasure. We would not be able to tell that these experiences were not real.

If you were given the choice, would you choose the machine over real life?

Why or why not?

I would not choose the machine, as I don't feel it would lead me to having a fulfilling life. What do I mean? It's difficult to describe, but since I would know that the whole thing was "fake," it could never lead to the feeling of existential fulfillment that I could potentially have in my real life.

Also, the reality of real life makes it more interesting to me. That's not to say that sense pleasure is bad, but personally I enjoy (on a deep, fundamental level, not in the sense of immediate happiness) navigating the challenges of this life while being relatively sure that A) it isn't tailored for me and B) that there are other minds sharing the world with me.

While I might very well, technologically speaking, be able to simulate these aspects of the lived experience with the machine, we run into two problems if we take that course. First, it wouldn't help the fact that I'd feel "existentially degraded" from the whole thing not being "real" and being purely a hedonistic instrument. Second, and more importantly, if we do simulate the struggles, uncertainty, and the agency of others with the machine, it begs the question of why we would bother using it at all, since at that point real life is comparable.

Short answer: No I wouldn't use it.

Originally Posted by LemonSqueeze

Imagine a machine that could give us any pleasurable experience we want. It works by stimulating the brain so that you feel this overwhelming feeling of pleasure. We would not be able to tell that these experiences were not real.

If you were given the choice, would you choose the machine over real life?

Why or why not?

I assume that this machine doesn't operate in a constant state of giving you pleasurable experiences, but that you get to chose when you want the machine to give you the chemical rushes?

Humans are designed to pick up on patterns and some neurons play the role of predicting and reinforcing rewards and risks.

If we had a machine that enabled a person to simulate pleasurable experiences, that would equate to a 'reward' response in the brain. This reward response is what compels us to take action (and in the opposite scenario, where there are less rewards, this equates to depression and anhedonia). Just like that experiment with rats and dopamine, if a person chose to use this machine, they'd probably become addicted to it. Excess dopamine causes schizophrenia though, doesn't it? I forget, but it does have a fair few detrimental effects.
I mean they could probably attempt to rationally get themselves out and back into reality, but dopamine causes recklessness. You probably wouldn't be 'thinking straight'.

I wouldn't chose this machine for fear that I would become addicted to it. It would be rewiring pathways in my brain regarding reward responses. It would probably become your reality. You would depend on that chemical response like an addict. You would keep reinforcing the behaviour because of the reward system you would continually be establishing and being entrenched in. You would continually be rewarded for potentially detrimental things. You could be dying and still be rewarded by the brain, and therefore you would probably be motivated to keep doing it. My question is, how long could a person last?

Apart from needing to have some sort of chemical balance in the brain, happiness motivates us, but other emotions tell us when something isn't right (among other things). They give us information happiness could never grant a person. I would certainly pick reality. Swimming in a sea of happiness would probably result in feeling out of control, and loss of self determination. You would lose your ability to choose and make decisions. The horrible thing is, you'd still be able to feel happy throughout the whole thing. You could acknowledge your loss of free will, but you could 'forget about it' by indulging in more happy chemicals how would we be able to distinguish what is good or bad for us or others? everything we did would give us the same effect: a reward. We could condition ourselves to potentially do everything/anything. The consequences of this are too vast to even get into.

I don't want to live a lie. Simple as that.