[Raichan]

As a self-identified moderate feminist, I'll tell you my view points. In the form of points..I am aware not every feminist may agree with me but I don't care, I care more about defining what causes I actually stand up for The points are NOT in order of priority ;

Slut shaming and rape culture
Slut shaming encourages girl on girl hate, but reduce the aspect of accountability on men's part. We see a lot of evidence of this in modern society. Feminists are not anti-men. ''That’s because actually, feminists think men should be treated as fully functional human beings with brains and morals who should be held responsible for the choices they make.” ( quote by Contemporary UK Feminism - The F-Word). The encouragement of girl on girl hate and reduction of aspect of accountability on men have contributed to today's ongoing rape culture. Under rape culture, rape is normalized and even trivialized.

An interesting article It’s not ‘slut-shaming’, it’s woman hating | Feminist Current

Inclusion of feminism
When I read this article, it strikes me how inclusive feminism can be when used in the right direction -- '' Needless to say, there was a lot I was missing. (Both about feminism, and about Saudi Arabia.) As I grew older, two things happened: I started paying more attention to what was going on in the world, and I met a lot of different kinds of feminists. In the Middle East, I met feminists who wore headscarves and abayas and hated stiletto heels for the same reason the buzz-cut-sporting older feminists I’d met in the US hated stiletto heels. I met younger third-wave feminists who loved stiletto heels for totally opposite reasons. I realized that feminism is actually a fairly elusive idea, one that often takes women in opposite directions in pursuit of the same goal'' Willow Wilson. Personally I subscribe to third world feminism -- 'Third world feminism struggle to address women’s rights issues within their own cultural models of society rather than through those imposed by Western colonizers' (Quote by Tuppurainen)




Feminism is good for men

Yes, it is. Besides the feminist assumption that men are capable of rationality and morality and should be given responsibility for what they do, feminism also challenges potentially harmful gender stereotypes. Some men in the world don't wish to be 'leaders' in the context of assumptions fueled due to the inequalities reinforced by patriarchal, class related structures/social structures. For instance, feminism understanding is that men are welcome when they want to more outward emotional expressiveness and authenticity, regardless of certain patriarchy related stereotypes.

More education rights for women needed

Ever heard of Malala Yousafzai? She was attacked for standing up for women's education rights. Malala Fund for education set up | The Nation

Imbalance/inequality of gender representation when it comes to entertainment/popular culture

I don't agree (personally) with everything that feministfrequency stands for, but there are many useful resources/ information to learn from some of her vidoes

http://www.youtube.com/feministfrequency

In the international sphere

Women in terms of international security are still underrepresented. Cynthia Enloe quotes,'' women's gendered identities and bodies become marked territories on which both states and non-state militant groups wage their wars and construct national narratives'' In ideological battlegrounds, for example in the discourse of West vs East dichotomies (which are already discriminating by themselves, since the Western world and Eastern world should not even be generalized as monolithic entities using oversimplified, discriminatory terms), women have been treated as a voiceless 'other' and even a 'contest' for extremists under War on Terror (for example) in terms of their claims to champion for women's emancipation. One example (of the many) of this is the disproportionate amount of obsession we see in the media about women's clothing, that still goes on in discussions today. For instance, people who are extreme in their views of modernity and secularization ignore the fact that a number of Muslim women find empowerment and liberation in their choice to abide by their religion, by wearing the headscarf/veil/burqa. In similar breath, people who are religious extremists who force women to cover up; ignore the tolerant, equity related aspects of religion that are known by many and exploit religion to put themselves in the positions of patriarch 'heroes' of women. The debates about women's clothing become so disproportionate to the extent that it fuels the capacity of women of various ethnicities and classes to become a 'competition' of which includes the participation of extremists on both the side of the West and East in order to win over the battle of women's rights ideologically, socially, politically - with the implicit assumptions that women cannot think for themselves when it comes to finding empowerment on their own terms when looking at historical, social, religious contexts.

And if you think this only effects Muslim women, think again. The binary divisions similarly convey the implicit messages that women are only proven ''free'' if their outward expressions, clothes suit one patriarchal extreme agenda over another. As if that isn't enough, we are constantly bombarded with consumer culture. Buy this new skincare line, look this skinny, etc or you wouldn't be ''good enough'' Have you ever seen the growing trend of 'thinspiration' 'thinspo' on tumblrs and social media lately?


Yes in this context, cultures and politics are interrelated.

(Sorry this paragraph is long simply because, I had written on the subject before and found it easier to articulate in words. Again, the way the points are constructed, none are in order of priority. All of rights relating to gender equality and justice are important)


These are only a few points/reasons, there are MANY more reasons but if I were to write them all it would take more than one freaking night

So yeah, feminists and those supporting feminism, feel free to add your points on why feminism is relevant etc. I don't know if this is the right place in the subforum to put it but yeah.

[dave.o]

This was very interesting. I find all forms of hate mongering and inequality to be some of the worst traits of our species. It's so sad to see people looking down on others simply for who
they are. Thanks for raising awareness of a cause you believe in. People like you make this world a brighter place.

[All in Twilight]

I swear, women can almost complain as much as men :p

[sleepyhead]

I identify as a feminist and human rights activist. My feminism is all about intersectionality and I do crisis work with men, women, and trans-identifying folks. I'm lucky where I live because it seems like most of the feminist/human rights activism is done by people coming from a very similar intersectional view-point (as opposed to other pockets of feminism that knowingly or unknowingly promote separatism, discrimination, racism, etc). I live in a place with a high Aboriginal population so racism and classism is a big part of my activism and something that is very often in the spotlight here.

I'm a very privileged person - I'm white, upper-middle-class, visibly heterosexual, cisgender, my disability is invisible so no one knows I have one, able-bodied, average-bodied, educated, employed, and I have a strong support system and come from a family that was able to provide me with everything I could want or need. I don't feel guilty for these privileges, but I'm aware it gives me advantages in ways others might never experience. I can never understand what it's like to be an aboriginal man, or a disabled woman, or a trans person, or someone who grow up in a violent home, or someone who grew up in poverty - so its important to me to be respectful of others experiences and to try to understand things from where they're coming from.

I'm happy to see in my city over the last 10 years the conversation about feminism and social issues has really kept up with expanding the focus. Sexual Assault programs, childhood sexual abuse centres, domestic violence shelters, counselling centres, and activist groups exist for people of all genders here (the childhood sexual abuse and DV shelter for men opened in the last year).

Some people ask why I don't identify as strictly a human rights activist but I still prefer to identify as feminist because women are still disproportionately represented in a number of different ways around the world (sexual violence, DV, lack of access to education rights, lack of employment rights - the list goes on). Of course many of these issues affect people from all genders, but the main focus stays on women because they experience many of these things at the highest rates - but that doesn't mean that the rights of others are ignored. If anything, I think it helps bring to light other human rights abuses that might be overlooked.

[Rinying]

im for equalism, not feminism. you can state feminism is good for men, but it will always have women at heart due to its name, and men second. i identify myself as an equalist. i want everyone to be equal, i don't care about your gender, culture, religion, skin color, or nationality. if i see a man beating up on a woman, i'll try to stop him. SAME thing goes for a woman beating up a man. i hate people trying to force their beliefs on another. its fine if its a debate, with both sides debating healthily, but unfair if a mob is hating on an atheist or minority who is being physically, and mentally abused to accept their religion. men are abused, just like women. people need to accept this.

[Raichan]

im for equalism, not feminism. you can state feminism is good for men, but it will always have women at heart due to its name, and men second. i identify myself as an equalist. i want everyone to be equal, i don't care about your gender, culture, religion, skin color, or nationality. if i see a man beating up on a woman, i'll try to stop him. SAME thing goes for a woman beating up a man. i hate people trying to force their beliefs on another. its fine if its a debate, with both sides debating healthily, but unfair if a mob is hating on an atheist or minority who is being physically, and mentally abused to accept their religion. men are abused, just like women. people need to accept this.

I understand your point of view, although I don't think it inherently means that feminism regards men as 'second.' I wrote in another thread,'' Certain civil as well as human rights related rights are championed segmentally on separate causes for a reason, it's to bring people specific awareness to certain issues and for the possibility of practical solutions/ even cross cultural understanding, this does not mean the inherent nature of the civil rights activism is to only promote further inequality. '' It's a matter of practicality too, to raise awareness on specific issues. For instance, civil rights related movements/groups to help people of minority groups aren't necessarily saying they are better or more important than white people/ other ethnic groups, just that there are certain issues the groups are able to focus on and find urgency/relation with in the context of the social parameters given to them.

I do realize that men still do face a lot of discriminations in terms of gender. A number of innocent men get laughed at when they report being abused by their partners, and were told to 'toughen up' etc (Harmful gender stereotypes at play - something that feminism doesn't like). That is just one example of the many. And I do realize that often, radical feminists and even feminists who aren't radicial don't touch on men's issues enough, who make men feel excluded. My aim is not to 'convert' everyone to feminism, it's more to so raise awareness about certain issues that are dominant but need to be recognized in some feminist related spheres.

[Ace Face]

It's funny that the definition of what feminism is differs from self-proclaimed feminist to self-proclaimed feminist. It reminds me a lot of Christianity on that front...

[Rinying]

I understand your point of view, although I don't think it inherently means that feminism regards men as 'second.' I wrote in another thread,'' Certain civil as well as human rights related rights are championed segmentally on separate causes for a reason, it's to bring people specific awareness to certain issues and for the possibility of practical solutions/ even cross cultural understanding, this does not mean the inherent nature of the civil rights activism is to only promote further inequality. '' It's a matter of practicality too, to raise awareness on specific issues. For instance, civil rights related movements/groups to help people of minority groups aren't necessarily saying they are better or more important than white people/ other ethnic groups, just that there are certain issues the groups are able to focus on and find urgency/relation with in the context of the social parameters given to them.

I do realize that men still do face a lot of discriminations in terms of gender. A number of innocent men get laughed at when they report being abused by their partners, and were told to 'toughen up' etc (Harmful gender stereotypes at play - something that feminism doesn't like). That is just one example of the many. And I do realize that often, radical feminists and even feminists who aren't radicial don't touch on men's issues enough, who make men feel excluded. My aim is not to 'convert' everyone to feminism, it's more to so raise awareness about certain issues that are dominant but need to be recognized in some feminist related spheres.

yes, but as a white I don't feel i am discriminated for being white. I can understand minority groups labeling themselves as for example NAACP. because they have a set goal, to make blacks equal to whites, and all the minorities in-between. though they referred to the main one as the civil rights movement, to include every single person who is oppressed. the thing though with feminism is that its trying to claim its for everyone, men and women. a white wouldn't head to the NAACP if they are oppressed, would they? (and I'm simply using these as examples, btw). so why would a male head to a feminist group for support? that is the thing, feminism is and should champion women above men, as its name implies, but equalism has no color or gender, it doesn't set any one person as more important to the others. it doesn't focus on the singular race or gender, but on each and every one of them. thats why I am an equalist. most feminists would focus on the woman issue before the mans, if they are equal issues, wouldn't they?

[MegaTuxRacer]

Feminism: welcome unless you disagree with our ideology!

[Paradox1987]

Intersectional feminism is very interesting indeed, and in terms of academic/professional labels, I'd fall under the "feminist jurisprudist" category, and of course feminism is good for men. JS Mill (a personal hero of mine) wrote On The Subjection of Women back in 1869, and the criticisms that he raised, along with the harm principle went on to revolutionise the criminal law in particular.

"I deny that any one knows or can know, the nature of the two sexes, as long as they have only been seen in their present relation to one another. Until conditions of equality exist, no one can possibly assess the natural differences between women and men, distorted as they have been. What is natural to the two sexes can only be found out by allowing both to develop and use their faculties freely."