The only reason left I can't accept Jesus

Hopefully this video will help give you an answer; I found it pretty useful.

I perceive the bible as a metaphor, and Jesus is the representation of truth uncorrupted by ego. He is not some holy being, he is a message of salvation for those in utter turmoil that need direction. God is the universe as a whole, and Jesus is the teaching of what is inherently all around us. He opens our eyes to the truth that transcends our perceived being and smashes through our ego like an iron fist, destroying what keeps us all from the kingdom of heaven, which is our self. It's like a prison cell that we try and shine up to look all pretty, but it's actually just a prison cell in the end, no matter how much gold and jewels we deck it out with. You are your own ball and chain, truth will sever your tie and lighten your load. You dig?

I'm a Taoist and I don't believe a sacrifice was necessary. The Tao always was and always will be, and sometimes bad things look good and good things look bad, depending on your perspective, so when you start meddling in the affairs of the world instead of just minding yourself and trying to just be a good person inside, you could be causing bad with what appears to be good, and be causing good with what appears to be bad.

What is necessary is for the person to align themselves with the natural order of things, listening both to the order of events around them and their internal intuitions. Attempting to fight too willfully against this will result in a disconnection from the Tao, and isn't good for you. It reminds me of Christians who say things like "let Jesus take the wheel" and stuff, or "thy will not my will." So you listen to that small still inner voice and adapt and work with current circumstances. This is a dream come true for someone with Fi/Se/Ni/Te function order, which is probably why it appeals to me.

And I think, perhaps, what people call God or The Way or The Universe or whatever is all the same, just for different people there are different interpretations.

I decided this when I was in like 11th or 12th grade, before I even really knew about Taoism, and had started looking into pagan religions and Buddhism and a little yoga and meditation.

I went through a long winding road with my agnosticism, but underlying belief in this, in the power of the universe, and its existence in nature, because I was raised Christian, and also because everything logical and sensible in me said "what kind of God does this? why are there so many inconsistencies? if I believe in half of it I'm living a lie, etc."

The Tao solved all that for me.

Originally Posted by Dylio

I perceive the bible as a metaphor, and Jesus is the representation of truth uncorrupted by ego. He is not some holy being, he is a message of salvation for those in utter turmoil that need direction. God is the universe as a whole, and Jesus is the teaching of what is inherently all around us. He opens our eyes to the truth that transcends our perceived being and smashes through our ego like an iron fist, destroying what keeps us all from the kingdom of heaven, which is our self. It's like a prison cell that we try and shine up to look all pretty, but it's actually just a prison cell in the end, no matter how much gold and jewels we deck it out with. You are your own ball and chain, truth will sever your tie and lighten your load. You dig?

I do think the message of Christ's crucifixion is selflessness, like sacrificing the self for the good of others.

I'm sure this could be interpreted metaphorically as allowing the goodness of the universe to flow through us, instead of being so ego-driven.

Which is a similar concept to the Tao. Except I think the Tao keeps it nice and simple. No old dudes in the sky with beards, although there are lesser gods, they are a product of the Tao, not a divine displeased Person who controls the universe like some kind of moody toddler.

Originally Posted by Ablysmal

Taking religious notions into consideration, I would say that Jesus is supposed to represent how much God loves mankind that he is willing to sacrifice his son for us. Going with the belief that Jesus is God incarnate, I think his (Jesus) death is a representation of God killing himself for us. It would demonstrate how much he is willing to do to show us his love.

I'm not religious, but this is just my 2 cents.

No Jesus never really died, he's eternal, and suicide is a sin, so no. No no no.

I always assumed (or perhaps I was told this at some point) that Jesus was a person without sin. Therefore, his blood cleanses our sins.

Take that as you will. And I currently consider myself agnostic, but if you're interested in Christianity, go for it.

Originally Posted by La Li Lu Le Lo

Hopefully this video will help give you an answer; I found it pretty useful.

Great video, which answers what I was asking.

God likes order. Sin creates disorder. Jesus restored the balance by setting such a positive example and making so much change and continued examples even to this day that the balance was restored..

This basically is with the perception that sin and good are at odds. So it wasn't some weird thing for God to do, it was a necessary thing to do under that viewpoint, which makes sense mathematically.

This doesn't mean that people before Jesus couldn't get into heaven though, which is a way I think some people misinterpret it.

I mean John the Baptist was there etc...

However it does make sense that without Jesus we'd all be screwed and out of touch haha.

Not because Jesus "gave us the Holy Spirit," so much as Jesus shaped culture through example.

Of course, that makes me wonder if the Holy Spirit is even meant to be an internal feeling or if it is meant to be something we can't feel, but is symbolized by the permeation through culture after Jesus.

Originally Posted by fourtines

I'm a Taoist and I don't believe a sacrifice was necessary. The Tao always was and always will be, and sometimes bad things look good and good things look bad, depending on your perspective, so when you start meddling in the affairs of the world instead of just minding yourself and trying to just be a good person inside, you could be causing bad with what appears to be good, and be causing good with what appears to be bad.

What is necessary is for the person to align themselves with the natural order of things, listening both to the order of events around them and their internal intuitions. Attempting to fight too willfully against this will result in a disconnection from the Tao, and isn't good for you. It reminds me of Christians who say things like "let Jesus take the wheel" and stuff, or "thy will not my will." So you listen to that small still inner voice and adapt and work with current circumstances. This is a dream come true for someone with Fi/Se/Ni/Te function order, which is probably why it appeals to me.

And I think, perhaps, what people call God or The Way or The Universe or whatever is all the same, just for different people there are different interpretations.

I decided this when I was in like 11th or 12th grade, before I even really knew about Taoism, and had started looking into pagan religions and Buddhism and a little yoga and meditation.

I went through a long winding road with my agnosticism, but underlying belief in this, in the power of the universe, and its existence in nature, because I was raised Christian, and also because everything logical and sensible in me said "what kind of God does this? why are there so many inconsistencies? if I believe in half of it I'm living a lie, etc."

The Tao solved all that for me.

That makes sense. What were Taoists like before Jesus? Were there many people in good faith, through Taoism or something else at the time?

If not, then wouldn't Jesus be a strong way of a higher power showing us an example of how to be good, which restored order to the overwhelming sin on the planet? We've definitely learned from the example, so that seems an easy way to say it restored order.

What do you think?

Originally Posted by fourtines

No Jesus never really died, he's eternal, and suicide is a sin, so no. No no no.

The example Jesus showed us is eternal because it showed us an example of how to be, and that has been passed down through the ages.

When people say Jesus is eternal without explanation, it sounds really silly, like Jesus is floating around. You might look at it that way as well, but it is certainly not necessary to look at it that way, and it confuses people and doesn't help nearly as much as if it were explained. Much of the time it actually reinforces peoples beliefs for why not to believe... Not your fault though, was just letting you know my thoughts on the matter :)

Originally Posted by Souled In

The example Jesus showed us is eternal because it showed us an example of how to be, and that has been passed down through the ages.

When people say Jesus is eternal without explanation, it sounds really silly, like Jesus is floating around. You might look at it that way as well, but it is certainly not necessary to look at it that way, and it confuses people and doesn't help nearly as much as if it were explained. Much of the time it actually reinforces peoples beliefs for why not to believe... Not your fault though, was just letting you know my thoughts on the matter :)

The only way I can be a Christian is if I see Jesus as an eternally alive entity. To just appreciate him metaphorically as a man who did works isn't being a Christian.

It is to internalize the body and blood of Christ. For someone who often speaks flippantly and sarcastically of the contradictions in the Bible, I actually take religion quite seriously; I think there's a deep, profound human need for religion - which is why science has been dangerously elevated to god-like status, as has things like the capitalist system and famous people.

I also could not continue attending mass or taking communion or confessing if I didn't see Jesus and Mary and God as something intelligent, conscious, eternal, and therefore unfathomable by mortal humans.