How does Fi cultivate their values?

I'm merely curious - there has been a lot of talk about how Fi is self-generating, independent and completely autonomous when it comes to it's core, personal values -- but where did those values come from? I'm not convinced that Fi just inherently has these values, Fe is often said to take external values and then make them their own and that Fe is very mercurial in that it values change to adhere to the norm to keep the peace. Is it possible that both Fe and Fi both got their values from external sources but Fi is just more "true" and fixated on them? While Fe sees these values as things to be amplified and changed in light of outside information?



How does Fi find their values if not by gaining them from external informational sources? Where does the values that Fi holds come from and what does it mean if Fi and Fe both build their processes the same way but guard them differently?

Thoughts?

Amazing question, wish it was as simple to answer as it is to ask. Its been quoted that Fi can't be answered intellectually. I will provide post and information with things i've been reading that makes complete sense to me. I can only take examples from my own type, although i think the individual methods of getting there is the same, we don't all adhere to the same system. When i say a system i mean we won't all adopt the exact same values. I do think Fi can mimic and adopt social norms, although we pick and choose those values depending on our personal journey. First 2 lines from portrait of an ENFP. I think its interesting how they talk so much about this internal value system.

As an ENFP, your primary mode of living is focused externally, where you take things in primarily via your intuition. Your secondary mode is internal, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit in with your personal value system.

This explains what Fi is looking for, the behavior and how it operates in the external world, for an ENFP.

They often stubbornly adhere to their value system regardless of threats to its validity. They are more concerned with keeping true to what they believe than they are with expectations or demands from the social group that they function within. ENFPs dislike personal criticism, because it threatens their validity as an individual and the validity of their value system. ENFPs may internalize anger rather than express it; their respect for other individuals makes it difficult for them to hurt others. An ENFP's feeling of success depends upon the availability of opportunities to grow their understanding of the world, upon feeling that they're living true to their personal value system, and upon the condition of their closest relationships.

I've rattled by brain trying to come up with words to express what i see. The only word that comes to mind is convictions. Is is possible that we have our own individual convictions of what is moral/valuable. This would explain why we won't all adopt the same values, because these convictions are what we personally believe in for ourselves, alone. We don't want to conform , and this explains what i see as convictions.

Fi- They often stubbornly adhere to their value system regardless of threats to its validity


I don't think Fi and Fe get their values from same process. Our motives and what drives us to these values are not coming from same method. I can't explain it as well as i'd like too, although you as an DOM Fi should be able to relate with why that is. :)

Originally Posted by MuChApArAdOx

I do think Fi can mimic and adopt social norms, although we pick and choose those values depending on our personal journey.

I definitely think that Fi at least at some point has to acknowledge the outside world in which to build upon it's values. I think Fe and Fi both build upon external ideas, thoughts and principals from the outer world but they measure them differently. Both Fi and Fe could build these personal principals from texts such as religion, cartoons, family members, role model figures, educational lessons, etc. But I think the difference could come from how much a person latches onto something and then how they examine those personal principals perhaps.

For instance I deeply feel bound to a moral code but somewhere along the way I had to build that from something -- I couldn't just create it from nowhere, I had to find that out from outside knowledge as a child or something else. I had to be introduced to that knowledge before formulating an opinion or principled value on it. I remember learning about Ethics from a Professor at Georgetown once and he spoke about how ethics and morality are socially constructed things and that it comes from being taught or indoctrinated from society. I wanted to argue against that but then I realized that at some point I did have to see it for what it was. At some point I had to have been influenced by others in regards to really being introduced to the values I have personally.

My Grandmother is a devout Catholic and strives to be a good person and that got passed down threw my family line some way, shape or form. Even if I firmly rebel against the idea that Religion "taught" me to be a good person, I can't deny that at some point it did effect me even if indirectly or peripherally. This doesn't mean that I am beholden to religion or an external system -- I always chafed against things like that but at the same time I had to be introduced to morality, right, wrong, guilt, truth, etc.

I think Fi can be created by deeply identifying with those norms to the point where they become solid facts to live by in your internal beliefs. Those external values become strong, fixated core values that define one's being at the core of who they are and that is how Fi manifests. Fe could also do this, but I am imagining that the process does not become as fixated or refined because they care a lot about getting outside approval or information to check the information they may be generating internally because Fe users don't trust their internal ideas as much. But then I end up asking if that is the case why do ENFP's and ESFP's have Fi then and why do INFJ's and ISFJ's have Fe, if Fi is an introverted function? Is it just something that certain individuals are predisposed to? Is it just something that the individual themselves decides to hold close to them and others don't? Is Fe just a changing version of Fi and Fi an indomitable spirit of Fe? I guess I am just asking what makes Fi develop the way it does since it can't exist without some form of external processing and if there is external processing of Fi what then makes it a completely different animal from Fe? Do Fe and Fi come from each other and it's just the way the individual breeds it for their own selective process or are the processes completely different like night and day?

As a Fi-dom I don't particularly feel beholden to other peoples views of certain processes or bound at all to outside rules or pressures. In my mind my beliefs are right and everyone else who doesn't uphold them just has a different view and if they deviate too much from them then they are wrong. It simply feels that way to my very being and I feel it threw out my entire body even when they try to explain themselves. I can fake sympathy but I don't truly feel anything for them because I am firmly entrenched in my view of the situation and how I am remarkably different from them my values get in the way of me feeling "with them" in some way. However a Fe user puts a lot of focus on the other persons feelings and gets swept away with those external feelings. They may not care at all about the criteria I am seeing in the individual and my "judging" process of their choices in alignment to my own . There is no blockage for them because they are focusing solely on the feeling that is being presented to them. Which is why Fe and Fi react so differently.

Is the idealization of the external value by Fi so militant in the belief that the ideal archetype should be recognized and upheld that they refuse to settle for less? Or is it that Fe is constantly molded and softened by the external world that they never have time to build up and idealize the true, virtue or qualities that Fi sees and holds so very dear to them?

I imagine both of them have to use the external world at some point. Maybe it's just that Fi rejects the failures because they don't see the failures as true and real because they don't match their inner world, while conversely Fe sees the failures as more real and more true and applicable to the real world. Fe = real world is external world, Fi = true world is internal world? But again their we also have the Introversion and Extroversion bridge again with Extroverts having Fi and Introverts having Fe. Which leads me to how the Feeling process is happening or developing and how Fe and Fi differ in that said development.

The only word that comes to mind is convictions...is possible that we have our own individual convictions of what is moral/valuable. This would explain why we won't all adopt the same values, because these convictions are what we personally believe in for ourselves, alone. We don't want to conform , and this explains what i see as convictions.

But what are we building this personal identity from? Aren't we even subconsciously at some point taking things from the external world and valuing them to the point in which we deem them good or bad enough to perpetuate it enough to become apart of our being? Yes, I definitely feel the pull of the archetypal Fi image in myself. I feel the ideal personal values kind of define who I am and I hold them dearly but at some point they came from the external. I internalized them and nursed them to the point in which they are now. I guess that may be the process which distinguishes Fe and Fi -- Fi obsesses about the ideal they wish to cultivate, where as Fe doesn't and just continuously takes in outside external information of their values -- not over thinking them or heavily monitoring them and that's why they are more susceptible or open to change.

I can't explain it as well as i'd like too, although you as an DOM Fi should be able to relate with why that is. :)

Definitely, I am just asking at what point do Fi and Fe converge as they are both feeling but expressed in very different ways. I do think Fi at some point has to check into the external world to modify the very thing which drives it, but I am struggling to understand the ways in which it builds the ideals and then so drastically differentiates itself from Fe.

I know more about the MBTI and Enneagram than I do Jung's cognitive functions, which I've recently been delving into in order to further self-awareness and self-understanding, and I'm not Fi-dominant, it being my tertiary function, but nevertheless I'll attempt to put this down to see if it makes sense.

Jung said that extraverted feeling "agrees with objective values," and "[e]ven where it seems to show a certain independence of the quality of the concrete object, it is none the less under the spell of traditional or generally valid standards of some sort"; "The valuations resulting from the act of feeling either correspond directly with objective values or at least chime in with certain traditional and generally known standards of value." I know this not to be true in my case. What I feel and the values that derived from them, come from experience. Epictetus said that "Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." Certain experiences I've had in my life aroused certain feelings in me ("This is wrong"), and it was those experiences that showed me what I value. I would analyze how I felt about certain situations and later I would attempt to crystalize my own personal world view and code of ethics, also reading any sources who expressed what I had felt (As Michel de Montaigne said, "When I quote others I do so in order to express my own ideas more clearly"), but it originated in myself, as there are things which I value that very much goes against what is considered the "norm." And I definitely know it isn't Fe.

Just got a thought, maybe it's Ni and Si that drive Fi?

This excerpt from an article on the phases of development in ENFP's seems to touch on Fi value cultivation. Eta: It seems for an ENFP, Fi values are formed from exploring, via Ne. During the 2nd phase is when our values are refined:


Their type development can be roughly divided into three phases. These phases unfold in accordance with the differentiation and development of their functional stack.

Phase I: Expanding & Experimenting

While ENFPs tend to remain curious throughout their lives, this is especially pronounced early in their development. As mentioned above, they tend to be equally open to both actions and ideas, to trying just about anything once. ENFPs expand their horizons by any number of means: reading, travel, the arts, taking classes, engaging with people, etc. This exploratory phase often continues well into their twenties, even into their thirties.

Phase II: Clarifying Values & Interests

As ENFPs develop their auxiliary function, Introverted Feeling (Fi), they feel compelled to refine and clarify their values, worldview, and identity. The process of “finding themselves” entails both inner (Fi) and outer (Ne) exploration. In this phase of development, ENFPs may seem more serious, focused, and morally directed than in their younger years.

Phase III: Convergence & Introversion

If and when ENFPs enter Phase III, they develop and integrate their tertiary (Te) and inferior (Si) functions. As ENFPs develop their Te and Si, they become more committed and self-disciplined. They balance their Ne propensity for restless seeking with Te/Si commitment and steadfastness. They learn to calm their restless minds and be okay with “what is.” They become more inner-directed and self-aware, moving toward inner harmony of mind, body, and spirit.


ENFPs’Auxiliary Function: Introverted Feeling (Fi)

Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the auxiliary function of both ENFPs and ESFPs. One of its primary concerns is the development of a personalized worldview, independent of societal conventions, which can serve as a platform for self-understanding and decision-making. Fi is quite similar to Introverted Thinking (Ti) in that it involves an ongoing process of building or modifying an inner structure. This was beautifully illustrated by one of my blog contributors:

“My inner values and feelings (Fi) are like a building, a structure of affections that inform my worldview. This involves an inner love for certain things, and an inner repulsion for other things. My values and feelings form “blocks” of varying hardness, depending on how strongly I feel about them; the stronger ones are more resilient…I constantly discover more about the structure as I go, and what I should change to make it better. For example, I didn’t have to factually discern a respect for human dignity; I simply found myself in situations where people did not respect human dignity, and it made me angry — I found out that I hate bullying.”

This idea of an inner structuring, involving affective blocks of varying degrees of hardness, seems to me a perfect illustration of the nature of Introverted Feeling.

The difference between Fi in ENFPs versus*INFPs is its place in the functional stack. For INFPs, it comes first, which makes*them quicker to judge. Afterward, they use their Ne to probe the judgment to see if it is valid or whether it should be kept open or “grey.” This too was nicely illustrated by one of my INFP blog contributors:

“As for core truths in general, I’ve found that I, too, come to a decision about a particular thing through my Fi (I love it, I hate it, I value it, etc.) fairly quickly, but I work to keep it in soft, gray place for a while (not my method in my younger years). I throw some Ne darts at it to see if it’ll fade to gray or if it’ll firm up to a deep black. Only through this testing can I find that I trust and accept that inner Fi decision as a core truth.”

For ENFPs, the order is reversed. They do not start with an initial judgment or presumption like INFPs. This is particularly true early in their development. Rather, like INJs, they approach each situation with fresh eyes, with the openness provided by their Ne. After exploring things by way of their Ne,*they use their Fi to form a judgment. Then, if they feel confident in that judgment, they may express it through their tertiary Te.

One of the more important features of Fi is its direction. Namely, because it is introverted, onlookers may not have ready access to ENFPs’ emotions. Like ESFPs, they express their Feeling judgments somewhat indirectly through their Te. Interestingly, this can lead others to view ENFPs as Thinking types, while seeing ENTPs, who extravert their thoughts by way of Feeling, as Feeling types. While this can be somewhat tricky and confusing for those new to typology, it is a very important phenomenon to recognize when trying to understand the personality types.

The phases of an ENFP: growth

A LOT of mine come from my childhood / upbringing / belief system that was both taught to me and that I studied and challenged and finally fully accepted. So I guess that is external sources.

But yes- I feel it is rock solid- like if someone throws something against it- it bounces off and gets thrown right back to them if it doesn't jive.

Originally Posted by Enfpleasantly

This excerpt from an article on the phases of development in ENFP's seems to touch on Fi value cultivation:

Their type development can be roughly divided into three phases. These phases unfold in accordance with the differentiation and development of their functional stack.

Phase I: Expanding & Experimenting

While ENFPs tend to remain curious throughout their lives, this is especially pronounced early in their development. As mentioned above, they tend to be equally open to both actions and ideas, to trying just about anything once. ENFPs expand their horizons by any number of means: reading, travel, the arts, taking classes, engaging with people, etc. This exploratory phase often continues well into their twenties, even into their thirties.

Phase II: Clarifying Values & Interests

As ENFPs develop their auxiliary function, Introverted Feeling (Fi), they feel compelled to refine and clarify their values, worldview, and identity. The process of “finding themselves” entails both inner (Fi) and outer (Ne) exploration. In this phase of development, ENFPs may seem more serious, focused, and morally directed than in their younger years.

Phase III: Convergence & Introversion

If and when ENFPs enter Phase III, they develop and integrate their tertiary (Te) and inferior (Si) functions. As ENFPs develop their Te and Si, they become more committed and self-disciplined. They balance their Ne propensity for restless seeking with Te/Si commitment and steadfastness. They learn to calm their restless minds and be okay with “what is.” They become more inner-directed and self-aware, moving toward inner harmony of mind, body, and spirit.


ENFPs’Auxiliary Function: Introverted Feeling (Fi)

Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the auxiliary function of both ENFPs and ESFPs. One of its primary concerns is the development of a personalized worldview, independent of societal conventions, which can serve as a platform for self-understanding and decision-making. Fi is quite similar to Introverted Thinking (Ti) in that it involves an ongoing process of building or modifying an inner structure. This was beautifully illustrated by one of my blog contributors:

“My inner values and feelings (Fi) are like a building, a structure of affections that inform my worldview. This involves an inner love for certain things, and an inner repulsion for other things. My values and feelings form “blocks” of varying hardness, depending on how strongly I feel about them; the stronger ones are more resilient…I constantly discover more about the structure as I go, and what I should change to make it better. For example, I didn’t have to factually discern a respect for human dignity; I simply found myself in situations where people did not respect human dignity, and it made me angry — I found out that I hate bullying.”

This idea of an inner structuring, involving affective blocks of varying degrees of hardness, seems to me a perfect illustration of the nature of Introverted Feeling.

The difference between Fi in ENFPs versus*INFPs is its place in the functional stack. For INFPs, it comes first, which makes*them quicker to judge. Afterward, they use their Ne to probe the judgment to see if it is valid or whether it should be kept open or “grey.” This too was nicely illustrated by one of my INFP blog contributors:

“As for core truths in general, I’ve found that I, too, come to a decision about a particular thing through my Fi (I love it, I hate it, I value it, etc.) fairly quickly, but I work to keep it in soft, gray place for a while (not my method in my younger years). I throw some Ne darts at it to see if it’ll fade to gray or if it’ll firm up to a deep black. Only through this testing can I find that I trust and accept that inner Fi decision as a core truth.”

For ENFPs, the order is reversed. They do not start with an initial judgment or presumption like INFPs. This is particularly true early in their development. Rather, like INJs, they approach each situation with fresh eyes, with the openness provided by their Ne. After exploring things by way of their Ne,*they use their Fi to form a judgment. Then, if they feel confident in that judgment, they may express it through their tertiary Te.

One of the more important features of Fi is its direction. Namely, because it is introverted, onlookers may not have ready access to ENFPs’ emotions. Like ESFPs, they express their Feeling judgments somewhat indirectly through their Te. Interestingly, this can lead others to view ENFPs as Thinking types, while seeing ENTPs, who extravert their thoughts by way of Feeling, as Feeling types. While this can be somewhat tricky and confusing for those new to typology, it is a very important phenomenon to recognize when trying to understand the personality types.

The phases of an ENFP: growth

Great find, nice =)) First time i read this article. This is clarity at it's best describing the inner workings of Fi. Thanks for posting. I hope all those confused with this function will take a minute and read, the process doesn't get any clearer than this. I liked how they compared Fi and how the process is different between I/ENP, interesting. I recognized the difference in pattern, nice to see it put well on paper :)

Nope, i lied. I did read it before, you posted it :D So, thanks for sharing this again :) This time i will bookmark it. I think every time in the future someone asks a question about the workings of Fi, i will post this link and save energy trying to explain :)

This is actually something that confuses me sometimes. At least, within myself.

I am quite the diplomat (no surprises there, seeing that I've mentioned this before). Whenever somebody has a different value, I really want to respect that. Actually, respecting and truly attempting to see another person's point of view and beliefs is a strong value of mine (haha). But I still can't adopt something that doesn't "match" with me, because it feels so wrong to me. I just know that, hey, that's not something I'm going to agree with. I often have internal battles with myself, because if there's one thing I strive to be, it is to be as open minded as possible. I sometimes feel guilty that there's things I'm stubborn about. Now that I'm typing this out, I realize how silly that is.

I remember one time my parents were having some political conversation, and I was in around fifth grade. It was about illegal immigration (oh yes, quite controversial, although I didn't understand the whole issue completely at the time), and all I could think was that I wished I could help the people in some way, and I couldn't help but thinking, "How am I ever going to agree to keeping them out, even if it's illegal?" [I'm not trying to derail the thread here! Just an example.] And I remember that was one of the first times I began disagreeing with my parents. Usually I agreed with them. It felt odd, at the time, but also I couldn't completely agree with them no matter how hard I thought about it. And where did this even come from? Nobody had told me about this before, or anything of the sort. It was just an internal feeling. Lol, even now this issue confuses the heck out of me.

I do note that my parents have nurtured me, and many values have been placed in front of me - some not from my parents. I don't think I just "took" them. I think I looked at them in a curious sort of way. I still do that, actually. ^_^ I feel like there's always something I put things against that really comes from something internal that I can't quite place a finger on. It's a bit circular, because really this means I have to trust my judgment, and I know my judgment isn't always going to be perfect.

If there's one thing I've learned from getting into cognitive functions, it is that as humans our view of things is so fragmented. We all have strengths and weaknesses. Our judgments either come from ourselves or from some external thing, and both can be very imperfect. That's why having other people around you with different points of view and having people around you that are different is necessary. :)

great answers here by everyone
To put very simply, for me, it comes from the notion that all lives have value and anything that violates its sanctity will trip me.